TC M-One XL wiring question

[STRAT TOOL]

I feel stupid asking this but what is the best way to wire this unit to my MixWiz so that I can use it on two of my vocal channels. Walk me through the cabling here, assume I am a noob. Am I using the Aux 5 and 6? if so, what do I return to? Two faders inputs? Will the M-One now be mono or stereo? Do I have to pan the channels?

 

do most guys use this for one single channel?

 

I want a decent reverb on two vocal channels. I'm not having good luck with the built in effects on the MixWiz, some nights I can't even get them to work at all. I'd feel really stupid about this but several others have tried too and maybe there is something wrong with my MixWiz effects to begin with. I use the board so much, sending it out is not an option until I get a backup board. Which will maybe be the A/H 24 channel ZEN unless I hear negative things about it.

[STRAT TOOL]

It pretty much dawned on me, that as much as I have learned in ten years doing this, I have no clue how guys wire up their racks full of effects at the mixer. Is this the reason people use 32 channel boards? To somehow tie in all the outboard stuff?

[Crownman]

Most of the time an effect is sent through an aux then returned to a channel input. This gives you total control of it. If you don't have the manual for it here's a link to a PDF of the manual. http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/M1XL_US_A5_rev4_2.pdf

 

Run it in dual mono mode. Lets say you have a 24ch board

 

Send aux 5 out to the left input. left output from the unit to channel 23 input

 

Send aux 6 out to the right input. Right output from the unit to channel 24 input.

 

This will give to two completely independent FX to play with.

[Unalaska]

There are two modes of operation with the M300/M350: 1st has the 2 inputs feeding both FX devices together and the 2 outputs are the product of both FX engines mixed together (using the VERB/DELAY knob next to MIX). Basically stereo input/stereo output.

 

The 2nd option has the LEFT input feeding the DELAY FX engine and the RIGHT input feeding the REVERB FX engine. The ouputs are again summed stereo and I'm pretty sure the VERB/DELAY knob still does something. Basically Dual Mono input/stereo(summed) output.

 

I find the easiest way to use the M300 is in the 1st mode and ONLY feed the LEFT INPUT to the M300 from an aux send (and then it only takes 1 aux send not 2). The stereo output can be sent back the mixer over 2 mono channels or a stereo return.

 

On the Mixwiz I believe the button under ST RET1 has to be lit to have the internal FX route to that knob (I could be wrong, I can't seem to remember off hand). Either way it should work. The FX on the mixwiz aren't very tweek friendly but work OK for some situations, but the M300 is way easier to tweek. enjoy...

[STRAT TOOL]

THANKS GUYS!!!!!!!!!

I know I'm gonna need more than 16 channels pretty soon.

[STRAT TOOL]

After downloading the manual, and visiting a second store with equally clueless salesdummy, I still am left wonding some things.

 

I like presets. Yea, I'm lazy. I don't want to tweek the {censored} out of something. Looks to me like the M-One has great presets. Here's the question. Are all of those presets going to give me a stero out? I mean, my goal was to use this thing as two independent effects. Perhaps I'd like that "grainy reverb snare" preset and that "big fat vocal" preset. So I could make the snare sound cool and maybe give the singer a little better sound through the mix. Does this untit do this? Or are these presets pretty much all stero effects that are going to limit this unit to one channel of something or other.

[monkeyland]

 

After downloading the manual, and visiting a second store with equally clueless salesdummy, I still am left wonding some things. I like presets. Yea, I'm lazy. I don't want to tweek the {censored} out of something. Looks to me like the M-One has great presets. Here's the question. Are all of those presets going to give me a stero out? I mean, my goal was to use this thing as two independent effects. Perhaps I'd like that "grainy reverb snare" preset and that "big fat vocal" preset. So I could make the snare sound cool and maybe give the singer a little better sound through the mix. Does this untit do this? Or are these presets pretty much all stero effects that are going to limit this unit to one channel of something or other.

 

 

sounds to me like the best thing that you can do is read the manual cover to cover. i'd never depend on salesmen to tell me detailed information about something like this. they just want to sell it.

[Black Frog]

Check page 13 (Dual S/R) and 15 (Dual mono) of manual.

[Unalaska]

Sheesh, I just noticed the OP has an M-One XL NOT M300. sorry

[Crownman]

 

Check page 13 (Dual S/R) and 15 (Dual mono) of manual.

 

 

+1 on that. Set it up dual mono.

[STRAT TOOL]

 

+1 on that. Set it up dual mono.

 

 

I didn't buy this unit yet, hence my lack of hands on with it.

 

Here's where I'm hung up. Let's say I select a preset. Do I have to reconfigure each preset to be dual mono? Don't some of these presets use all four engines? Or if I configure the input to dual mono is it only going to give me presets that are one side of a dual mono. This is where I am stuck and not understanding the manual. Perhaps in dual mono I have to make my own user patches? Does this make my question clearer?

 

Thanks

[agedhorse]

Do you really need 2 different reverbs?

 

After reading your question again, I think you just want to use verb on 2 channels... you only need one aux send, one return (or a stereo return if you want the verb to have stereo spread) and you will use the one aux send for all the channels you want to add reverb on.

[STRAT TOOL]

Had a crowd of about 100 people. Ran the single 18" sub with the 12", two way top. Used two QSC 2450 amps stereo.

 

Four bands. 3 Classic rock and one metal band.

 

I cannot count how many people said this system absolutely rocked. One guy even said, "Dude, they are like hi-fi speakers not PA cabinets".

 

Extremely happy with this purchase. The guy helping me load up at 2 am couldn't believe how light the subs were and easy to carry. I am really glad I bought the 12" over the 15" speakers. I have two sets of 15" and the 12"s sound much better with the subs. I know I know, "I told ya so". You guys were right. 12"s with subs seem to have much better clarity.

 

New rig is all speakon cables and easy to get up and running. I am making progress. I even had two bands take my name to do sound for them.

 

By the way, I got the effects working on the Mix Wiz. I had the master auxes turned down. I didn't really know what these were for. Now I know I have a global control on the floor wedges and they impact the way the internal effects work on auw 5 and 6.

 

My whole problem all along is that I have no place to set the PA up to mess with it. It's always a rush to get it put together at a bar and get sound coming out of it. Sound checks are a joke half the time. Last night I was ready to bitch slap a kid for turning his amp up three times during the set. I turned his channel off and still, the idiot blew the singer off the stage.

When they ended the song, I got on the talk back mic and told him to turn it down or I was going to unplug him from the {censored}ing wall. Probably not too professional, but I got my point across. I want every band to sound great regardless if I like them or not.

[STRAT TOOL]

 

Do you really need 2 different reverbs? After reading your question again, I think you just want to use verb on 2 channels... you only need one aux send, one return (or a stereo return if you want the verb to have stereo spread) and you will use the one aux send for all the channels you want to add reverb on.

 

 

 

OK, for example, the M-One had a preset for a snare drum reverb. So I figure I could get that going on one aux, and then have let's say a slight stage reverb on the lead vocal.

 

Here's another question for you. Let's say you had a couple DBX compressors in your rack, how do you manage the I/O on these? Do you use a patch bay? I see people with so many effects and processing in their gear (not that I want this) surely it's not all going through a few aux channels. Do some of you guys plug the mic sends directly into the back of the processors?

[Black Frog]

 

Let's say you had a couple DBX compressors in your rack, how do you manage the I/O on these? Do you use a patch bay? I see people with so many effects and processing in their gear (not that I want this) surely it's not all going through a few aux channels. Do some of you guys plug the mic sends directly into the back of the processors?

 

 

Inserts on the individual channels. That jack 'inserts' the compressor, gate, or whatever, into that channel only.

[OneEng]

I use an M-One XL as my main effect in my MixWiz 16/2.

 

The M-One XL is a dual processor. You can either run two effects in series, stereo, or dual mono.

 

In order to get two different reverbs, you would use dual mono and put a different reverb on each of the 2 channels.

 

To wire this up, I do not recommend using up slider channels on your mixer for 2 reasons.

 

The first is that you use up two channels on a 16 channel mixer. The second is that you are effectively running effects out of your mixer and then back into another set of preamps and eq settings. The 2nd is too big a deal, but it makes that many more things that can be gotten wrong (gain, eq, etc).

 

I recommend you use the stereo returns 1 and 2 (which is what I do). If you are running dual mono, you would run the output from AUX 5 into one of your M-One inputs, and the output from AUX 6 into the other. The outputs from your M-One will then go into stereo return 1 and 2.

 

This setup will leave you with a full 16 channels for your band.

[KPAudio]

Hey. I actually work at TC and I developed some of the presets in the M-One XL. However, this shouldn't be seen as an official TC Electronic post. I'm just a guy who owns an M-One, and has a lot of PA gear (and wants to help).

 

Fist of all: You mentioned something about 4 engines or something. The M-One has 2 engines = it can produce 2 effects at the same time. The downside to the M1 is that you cant store presets for one engine at a time. When you store a preset or recall a factory preset you do it for both engines at once.

 

Here is what I recommend you do:

1: Set up your unit to run i "Dual S/R" (dual send return). In this configuration everything that goes into the Left input of the M1 (like AUX 5 from your desk) will be sent to engine 1 and out of engine one comes a nice stereo signal with reverb. Everything you send into Right input of the M1 goes into engine 2. And once again - out comes a nice stereo signal. But now you have 2 stereo signals you might think. Dont worry. The M1 mixes them together inside and sends them out of the stereo out. You should then patch that output back into either the ST 1 or 2 on your mixwiz, or into two channels on your mixwiz. Pan the channels hard left and right. You now get a nice stereo signal, and you can control how much "drum reverb" (if you have that on say engine 1) you have compared to vocal reverb (maybe eng 2) by sending more or less on your aux sends on your desk.

 

2: Editing the parameters is quite easy: Hit the "Algo/Edit" button for the engine you want to edit, and start turning knobs. If you hit the algo edit button again you get into the algorithm section. Here you can choose wich algorithm you want. When you choose a new algorithm it we recall it with a factory set of values (decay etc).

 

3: You mentioned something about if you have to reconfigure every preset to be Dual S/R. You dont. If you go into the Utility menu there is a "Routing lock" parameter you can turn on. It will lock the routing to the currently selected routing.

 

The Dual Send Return thing: If you don't really understand what I wrote in "1" dont worry. For some it's a little confusing at first. Think of it as 2 independant reverb units and a little mixer built into one box. Some don't like this function (although most people do). This is because they cant control the output of the two different effects seperately. Some engineers like to have the drum reverb on 2 channels and the vocal reverb on two diffenrent channels. There is a work around (actually two) to this. In each engine at the very end of all the parameters you can tweak, there is an output level for that engine. And the second way to control it is to use the "Effect bal." button on the front. Turned all the way to the left you only hear engine one, all the way to the right you only hear engine 2. In the middle you hear both engines equally.

 

A few tips about the M1: I generally always turn the early reflections parameter completely down. I don't like the sound of it. For drums I tend to always use plates, and for vocals I like to use the Live Reverb algorithm. I also always turn the "Hi Colour" parameter all the way up. It gets a little more gritty and 80's like that way

 

Regarding cables: You should just use normal balanced XLR to jack cables. I recommend that if you return the M1 into two normal channels on the mixwiz you should use the jack inputs. If you hook it up to the XLR inputs (the mic input) you could accidentaly send phantom power to the M1 outputs. Im not sure it will like this:)

 

I guess that was my (long) post. If you have any other questions feel free to ask...

[fatcatcubby]

! question, why did they use XLR ins and outs on the M one XL? all aux's i've used are 1/4" I can see useing the outputs to a channel input but sends are always 1/4" T/s orTRS. doesn't seem to be the norm to me Maybe some use it as a verb everything? XLR board to power amp?

kind of wondering.

[abzurd]

 

! question, why did they use XLR ins and outs on the M one XL? all aux's i've used are 1/4" I can see useing the outputs to a channel input but sends are always 1/4" T/s orTRS. doesn't seem to be the norm to me Maybe some use it as a verb everything? XLR board to power amp? kind of wondering.

 

 

That's just how they did it. You can use an insert cable that has XLR's to the processor and TRS at the mixer. http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/MTIS/YIN-MF/YIN-MF_cutsheet.shtml

[Craig Vecchione]

 

! question, why did they use XLR ins and outs on the M one XL? all aux's i've used are 1/4" I can see useing the outputs to a channel input but sends are always 1/4" T/s orTRS. doesn't seem to be the norm to me Maybe some use it as a verb everything? XLR board to power amp? kind of wondering.

 

 

That's also the "XL" part of the unit's name. The original, the M-one, had 1/4" I/O's.

 

XLR is used because it's a common connection for pro gear. Many users also return from the effects unit to a channel instead of a return, for easier control.

[agedhorse]

Balanced inserts are common on real pro gear (mixers) when used as an insert, and aux sends/returns (or channel ins) are XLR balanced on all pro mixers.

[fatcatcubby]

thanks guys