Members Quarterwave Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 Hi all, Further to the subject, I'm having problems with the sound of my electric guitar bleeding into my subs. For the most part, I am using a Les Paul into a 50 W Peavey 2 x 12, miked with a Sennheiser E906, running through a Soundcraft E12 series mixer. The FOH are Yorkville E12 mains and 2 Yorkville NX720P's. I am also using the Yorkville E1215 (I think that's the model) processor, which I also use as a crossover - set @ around 100 hz. The specific problem is when I am hitting the strings with my picking hand - it produces a loud "thud" in the subs - which I noticed for the first time this Saturday night, when we had to mount the speakers on the stage with the band (large stage, but tables were fixed close up to it - too close to put the subs on the floor).... As I don't have a hi pass filter on the Soundcraft board that I am using - what is an alternative to trying to get the Les Paul out of the subs without sacrificing too much of the tone (aside from getting a new board which has HPF, which I would prefer not to do).... Thanks in advance for any ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 Turn down the lows on the guitar channel. If the tone you want has frequencies below the crossover point then it'll be in the subs. Not much way around that except to get rid of thos freq's before it gets to the speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 You could insert an eq that has a high pass filter on the guitar channel and leave it flat. It's cheaper than replacing the board. DBX and ART both make eq's with this feature and you can generally find a two channel version for less than $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Ice Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 Sounds like an ideal case for aux fed subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 Sounds like an ideal case for aux fed subs If the board doesn't have HPF's on the channels, it's unlikely to have enough aux's either. Then there's the little problem of needing a second processor rto acccomplish the LPF section of the crossover. If the guitar sound is a chunk-chunk style, it's going to be reproduced by the subs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members allexcosta Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 Try lowering the crossover point to 90hz...Also, an EQ pedal could help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jerry007 Posted September 7, 2009 Members Share Posted September 7, 2009 +1 for the EQ pedal. You can pick up a Danelectro for around $20, and try rolling off some offending frequencies there. Very decent pedal... Though you might want to try something with more than 7 bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mshifflett Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 EQ it out at the board. I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to dial out the low frequencies enough to clean it up. Maybe easing up on the guitar amp's low end too while you are at it. Tone on stage is great, but if the end product doesn't sound good then what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dark Ice Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 If the board doesn't have HPF's on the channels, it's unlikely to have enough aux's either. Then there's the little problem of needing a second processor rto acccomplish the LPF section of the crossover. Good point! If it were me I would just use the pan controls in leiu of an auxiliary and run in mono, but I suppose thats not for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 EQ it out at the board. I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to dial out the low frequencies enough to clean it up. Maybe easing up on the guitar amp's low end too while you are at it. Tone on stage is great, but if the end product doesn't sound good then what is the point?yes, a little less at the amp, and then a modest cut at the channel strip. I always check my hi-gain modern channels/tones by dead-picking a low power chord and seeing if the low-end is over the top, and then adjust the channel strip as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members witesol Posted September 8, 2009 Members Share Posted September 8, 2009 are you in std tuning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted September 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Hi guys, Thanks for the responses. Yes, standard tuning (VERY occassional dropped D or open E - as I play a lot of slide), but the material is fairly light by modern standard (Billy Idol / Kings Of Leon is about as heavy as we get) - so definately no "chunka chunka" style guitar here. I have everything running in mono on the board, and that signal runs into one channel of a Rane ME60 EQ. In all honesty, I'm tired of buying hundreds of $$ worth of gear, for shows that only pay $100-$150 per man, so I think I'll take some low end out of the amp (which again, is not much), some @ the board, and see where it takes me. Thanks again - I appreciate all of the feedback ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Back the mic off the cab a few inches. The proximity effect of having it right on the grill will make your problem worse. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted September 9, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks Dan, I will try that - although, as the E906 is a flat-faced mic, how would you suggest holding it off the grill - as the stages are often not big enough for me to use a mic stand (without bumping into it every 5 seconds). Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 are you in std tuning? My bandmates are constantly tuned for STD's....no matter how hot the chick is...that nasty cold sore = no thanks. lol. Ok....back to what witesol really meant...are you guys typically tuned standard or are you detuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 Thanks Dan, I will try that - although, as the E906 is a flat-faced mic, how would you suggest holding it off the grill - as the stages are often not big enough for me to use a mic stand (without bumping into it every 5 seconds).Thanks again. They make mic brackets (don't know the official name) that sit under the amp (or head I guess) and get the mic a few inches away from the cab. I've never used one but some people swear by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members flanc Posted September 9, 2009 Members Share Posted September 9, 2009 They make mic brackets (don't know the official name) that sit under the amp (or head I guess) and get the mic a few inches away from the cab. I've never used one but some people swear by them. They are called a Z-Bar http://www.audioeast.com/stands.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Quarterwave Posted September 10, 2009 Author Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok, thanks Flanc - I'll check it out. Re the tuning, standard tuning for 99% - maybe a low E dropped to a D for 1 - maybe 2 tunes - and then a couple in open E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted September 10, 2009 Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 Ok, thanks Flanc - I'll check it out. Re the tuning, standard tuning for 99% - maybe a low E dropped to a D for 1 - maybe 2 tunes - and then a couple in open E.There's really nothing wrong with a little guitar being in the subs if those frequencies are present. Are they overbearing or higher in volume than the rest of the frequencies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bugzie Posted September 10, 2009 Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 Most Les Pauls have a decent set of pickups in them. How close were you playing to the back of the sub? I really hate the subs on the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted September 10, 2009 Members Share Posted September 10, 2009 They are called a Z-Bar http://www.audioeast.com/stands.htm Also they have these by Audix called Cabgrabber http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CabGrabber/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted September 11, 2009 Members Share Posted September 11, 2009 I find that many guitarists dial in too much low end. If I can feel the guitar at FOH before I turn the PA on, there's too much bottom on the guitar rig! Back the mic off a bit. But don't be surprised if cymbal or drum bleed start to be a problem. Use the channel strip EQ. However as it is most likely a shelving EQ with an overly high turnover frequency, it may also take out some of the low mids that you don't want to get rid of. Try a mike with less proximity effect. Even though the biggest proximity boost is usually around 200Hz to 250Hz, a mic that's flatter when used up close might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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