Members stix 518 Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 Oh wise one(s)! I come to you for more wisdom and knowledge... requesting your benevolence and beneficience to flow with further instructions and directions on proper set-up and usage (as he genuflects on knee and bows his head in reverence) . No, but seriously. I have followed your sage advice and purchased a "real" crossover, a dbx 223XL and am seeking your advice as to the proper installation so as to maximize the use and sound of my equipment. Here's what I have... 2 Carvin LS1801 subs @ 8 Ohms Imp. ea. 2 Carvin LS1503 3-way Main Cabs @ 8 Ohms Imp. ea. 2 Crown XLS602 Amps Currently running signal through a Soundcraft Spirit FX16 summed out to 1 side of a FBQ3102 EQ (the other side is for the monitors), then to snake, then to (bridged) amps - one each side - utilizing the internal crossover on the subs. As indicated, I took your advice and purchased a dedicated crossover. I am thinking about mounting the dbx in the amp rack (set side-stage as opposed to the FOH rack - this will also free up 1 channel on the snake), running the summed sub output from the dbx through one of the 602's bridged @ 1600 watts to the daisy chained subs and running stereo (utilizing both channels both I/O) through the other 602 to the mains. Would this work and is this the best use of what I have? Any other/better suggestions? What frequency and what setting would/should the dbx be set at? Why? I'm trying to learn this stuff and you all have been extremely helpful to date. Thanks in advance for your assistance!! Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 you sure the xls602 can feed a 4ohm load while bridged? crown doesnt list it as a load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members madjack Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 you sure the xls602 can feed a 4ohm load while bridged? i'm not so sure. It is not recommended on Crown's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 You're asking for advice from agedhorse, and yet you want to bridge an amp without knowing all the implications? Check his posts, and see waht he thinks about the average user and bridging:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 You're asking for advice from agedhorse, and yet you want to bridge an amp without knowing all the implications? Check his posts, and see waht he thinks about the average user and bridging:) Yea... I don't know what's up with that... after-all, Andy's a reconer (among other things). What I'm getting at is that Andy's advice on the subject (considering his reconing activities) makes as much sense as a dentist recommending their patients brush and floss daily and lay off the candy... or a mechanic suggesting their client change their vehicle's oil more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 Say it with us. The HC Mantra: "DO NOT BRIDGE...DO NOT BRIDGE...DO NOT BRIDGE". IMHO, the best way to set up your rig would be to send your L/R signal to the dbx crossover. Channel 1/2 input. dbx Mid/High Channel 1/2 output to your Crown amp #1 1/2 input. Crown #1 1/2 output to Mid/High cabinets (L/R side). dbx Low output to Crown amp #2 1 input. (Engage the switch so that the same signal goes out from both channels of that amp). Crown #2 amp output to sub cabinets (L/R side). Make sure that your X1 switch on the dbx crossover is set and start at about 80-100 Hz filter setting. Also, make sure that your phase switch is not set. Johnny (NOT Agedhorse, but a devout follower!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members roadweiry Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 602's don't do well bridged. Running the 602's stereo would probably put you where you want to be with those speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted October 24, 2009 Members Share Posted October 24, 2009 Running the 602's stereo would probably put you where you want to be with those speakers. yeah but, bridging is so cool mang POOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Yes, I know AH is one who is opposed to bridging, he has said so in posts to me - however, for the Subs, it seems like a no brainer, bridging provides some headroom, frequency drop is minimal and the heavy low frequency draw is accomodated... by the way, for those that have commented regarding the Crown XLS Series and bridging being bad, I provide the following info per Mr. D Glass, a Crown tech, as posted on the Crown Forum: http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2723 And here he further explains: The XLS Dseries amplifiers will operate fine at 2-ohms dual channel/4-ohms Bridge-Mono. There is simply not a published spec for them due to compliance issues. The "Nominal" load impedance rating of a speaker is not the actual Impedance as impedance is a fuction of frequency. some speakers that are 8-ohms can go a s low as 5.6 ohms at certain frequencies. Two of these speakers togather at that frequency could as low as a 2.8-ohm load. In Bridge-Mono effectively you are taking both sides of the amp strapping them together in a push-me pull-you configuration were channel 2 is configured out of polarity with channel 1. When the channel 1 side of the amp is pushing (going positive) the channel 2 side is pulling (going negative) the exact same amount and vice versa. The Speaker load is attached across the two positive output terminals to obtain the combined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 For some reason, it double posted so... I deleted the second one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stix 518 Posted October 25, 2009 Author Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I need to make a correction to my equipment list... 2 Carvin TR1801's2 Carvin TR1503's Although we've had to change the Internal Crossover on these to the LS1503 Crossovers. Sorry! Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ok, again you may not like my advice but do not freekin' bridge. I mean it. You do not understand enough (yet) to do so, and your choice of amps is not what I would recommend anyway. Keep it simple and as direct as possible. Console left out to crossover input. crossover left low out to sub amp channel 1, crossover right low out to sub amp channel 2. One sub off of channel 1 out and the other sub off of channel 2 out. Same for the tops, except use the high outs. Be sure your xover is in stereo 2 way mode. Freq between 80-100Hz. Use ~30Hz HPF on sub channel wherever it's available. The potential gains from bridge operation are far outweighed by the pitfals IMO. When you REALLY understand speaker ratings, you will appreciate my recommendation more. Until then, you will have to trust me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Ok, again you may not like my advice but do not freekin' bridge. I mean it. You do not understand enough (yet) to do so, and your choice of amps is not what I would recommend anyway.Keep it simple and as direct as possible. so... what are all of us soundfolks doing stooging out on the web on a Saturday night... anyway? Liz is off taking her mom out on the town for her mom's birthday dinner. I'm here acting like I'm cleaning my shop and going over some riders... and thinking about a jam sandwich (like take a couple pieces of bread, jam something inbetween the bread and munch it down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 my wife was in montana all week and got back today so i stopped working at 6pm to come and be at home. i'd rather do that than sit in a bar listening to the same 37 tunes i have already heard for the last 30 years anyway. it is kinda odd being home on a SAT night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 so... what are all of us soundfolks doing stooging out on the web on a Saturday night... anyway?. Just finished 2 ballet shows back to back, one sell-out. Yay! Not really a ballet fan but this was pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 stix, if you don't abide by agedhorse's opinion and you bridge anyway, please come back and let us know how it goes. There are a lot of bridging questions here by people that don't understand all the implications of bridging. Maybe you can be one of the examples that we use to convince others of the dangers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 I used to think that it (bridging) was the best thing for my system. I thought that since I was putting a 4ohm load(2 - 8ohm 18" drivers) on to each side of a 3402(1100W) and it was blowing the drivers that bridging was better. The reason they were blowing was I needed to turn them up too much to make the sound where I needed it in the rooms I played. This was a while back(2004-2005) to where I can't seem to search for the posts, but Agedhorse said not to bridge, and I did anyway. Long story shortened, I damaged some 18" drivers in my subs. I have since connected each speaker to a side of a QSC3402. Haven't blown one since. The perceived power "loss" from switching from bridging is non existent. In fact, the speakers sound better run the way I have them now. Was: (2) 8ohm drivers on one amp in bridge mono. Each receiving 1700W Now: (1) 8ohm speaker on one side of amp in stereo mode. Each receiving 700W. The speaker actually puts out more sound and sounds deeper and less strained. But, now I know that what Andy said to me back then was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Oh, I didn't think to write the type of speaker I use. The 18" are Peavey pro riders that can handle 600W continous. Here's the link to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Yea... I don't know what's up with that... after-all, Andy's a reconer (among other things). What I'm getting at is that Andy's advice on the subject (considering his reconing activities) makes as much sense as a dentist recommending their patients brush and floss daily and lay off the candy... or a mechanic suggesting their client change their vehicle's oil more often.Andy isn't going to be the doctor who says "your lungs aren't getting enough tar. You need to start smoking more"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Yea... I don't know what's up with that... after-all, Andy's a reconer (among other things). What I'm getting at is that Andy's advice on the subject (considering his reconing activities) makes as much sense as a dentist recommending their patients brush and floss daily and lay off the candy... or a mechanic suggesting their client change their vehicle's oil more often. Hopefully I was clear that if the OP had done a search he wouldn't have even mentioned bridging in agedhorse's presence:) And I would agree. Too many stories of; I blew a xxxxx after bridging a xxxxx. Sad but true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Just finished reconing 24 drivers for a customer who bridged some big Crown amps into his speakers for the additiional headroom that he was POSITIVE was necessary. The bill was over $3k for the repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted October 25, 2009 Members Share Posted October 25, 2009 Just finished reconing 24 drivers for a customer who bridged some big Crown amps into his speakers for the additiional headroom that he was POSITIVE was necessary. The bill was over $3k for the repair.Some guy over on PSW is insisting 2400w into a single SRX718S makes for a good sub setup. As a lot of them PSW guys live near me maybe I should open up a reconing shop and get rich ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TWSSBAND Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Some guy over on PSW is insisting 2400w into a single SRX718S makes for a good sub setup. As a lot of them PSW guys live near me maybe I should open up a reconing shop and get rich ? Why would someone consider doing that? I am not expert just a weekend warrior but I am baffled how that would be a benefit or why you would even want to push that much wattage through 718. Must be one of those "my watts is bigger than your watts" thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 Why would someone consider doing that?I am not expert just a weekend warrior but I am baffled how that would be a benefit or why you would even want to push that much wattage through 718. Must be one of those "my watts is bigger than your watts" thing. matt V had a spectacular ending to a similar situation, maybe since they are the more 'professional forum' [sic] they think thats what a speakers' end game is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TWSSBAND Posted October 26, 2009 Members Share Posted October 26, 2009 they think thats what a speakers' end game is? more professional forum:confused:....when i strted searching for forums couple years ago I never came across anything hat helped me there. I guess i rather be semi-pro and have my equipment make it through the years instead of being pro and blowing things up every weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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