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A Momentary Lapse of LP Memory


ksl
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Good morning all~ Forgive me as it's been a while since I've owned a LP or similar with a standard 2 p/u, 2-Vol,, 2-Tone setup,,, BUT when you're in the middle position and you fully back off the volume of either p/u, is it normal to loose all volume? It's a Dean Hardtail that has had the original p/u's replaced with some X2N clones that sound fine, but I sense that something is amiss... As an aside, the 10.3K Neck p/u is overpowering the 16.6K Bridge, regardless of how much i compensate the p/u heights,,,??....
thnx in advance!!Screenshot_20210829-100230_Gallery.thumb.jpg.c767a428ecd25e6c2b90e9833ad6b25f.jpg

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Hmmm, so it IS normal!?? I've heard of 50's & 60's wiring that differ in this fashion, but it's too hot today,,, Very cool info,,, Any simple link to the Schematic for independent controls, or both, so I can match my setup?  Hey, it's 95 in the shade down here, so yes, a lazy sod i am,,, thnx in advance folks🕉🎶

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On 8/29/2021 at 1:18 PM, badpenguin said:

Like I said, switch the output of the vol pot, to the three way switch, with the input of the vol pot from the pickup. 

Ok what's the reason for the global volume anyway? Do you still have play with front rear balance?

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9 hours ago, 1001gear said:

Ok what's the reason for the global volume anyway? Do you still have play with front rear balance?

I have no idea what you are asking. The mod I mentioned allows you to turn one volume all the way down, without affecting the other pickup when in the middle position on the three way switch.

"Global volume"... I assume you mean a Master volume? Not mentioned at all in the thread. And "front rear balance" ? With any guitar with 2 volumes you have that option.

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53 minutes ago, badpenguin said:

I have no idea what you are asking. The mod I mentioned allows you to turn one volume all the way down, without affecting the other pickup when in the middle position on the three way switch.

"Global volume"... I assume you mean a Master volume? Not mentioned at all in the thread. And "front rear balance" ? With any guitar with 2 volumes you have that option.

Why then does KSI turning down one vol. result in the sound disappearing?

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22 hours ago, 1001gear said:

Why then does KSI turning down one vol. result in the sound disappearing?

Gibson style wiring, 2 vol and 2 tones, when you lower one vol to zero with the 3 way switch in the middle, it kills the volume. Both signals go to ground when the pot is at zero. The mod I mentioned is called decoupling. It stops that from happening. 

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On 8/29/2021 at 3:41 PM, badpenguin said:

Just take one of the volume controls, and reverse the input and output. that will decouple the wiring, so you can lower a pickups volume without losing both. Google is your friend.

Seems so simple, it makes me wonder why they’re not made that way. Is there a down side. I’ll have to try this on my 335 clone when I get a chance.

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Ever try and kill the volume of two independent volume controls at the end of a song? It can be like a one legged paper hanger in a kicking contest as you fiddle your volume down and feel like a fool as your instrument overshoots the song ending which should cut to dead silent.  

Having the ability to cut the volume using a single knob is a reason why many prefer Fender guitars. Of course what they never get to experience is all the subtle tones as you blend the two pickups at different levels.  One way around it is to use one of the tone pots as a master volume but having two pots in series can suck some serious tone on an instrument which tone is typically dark enough to begin with.  Rickenbacker uses this method. They wire the volumes to work independently then use a master volume.  I suppose this helps control their Rick-O-Sound, stereo pickup wiring for running two amps. You could adjust each amp separately using either pickup volume then adjust the overall with the master volume. 

I can say, wiring them independently does make for a slightly brighter tone. You sacrifice some bendability however. When you adjust one of the two down it quickly disappears in the blend after you go down two notches or so.  I have one Tele build where I used a treble bleed cap on the bridge pot and none on the rhythm.  The rhythm gets darker as it attenuates and the bridge brightens.  It gives me an expanded range of tone when both are turned down a bit.  

Which wiring scheme is better? That's something you simply have to try and decide for yourself. I do recommend using a volume pedal if you go independently.   

By the way I believe its the tone caps which are wired differently in LP's not the volume.  There may have been an exception some place, but the wiring in a 50's vs Modern LP was strictly a difference in how the volume tapered with the tone caps connected to the center volume vs the output.     https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thegearpage.net%2Fboard%2Findex.php%3Fthreads%2Fwhy-50s-wiring-on-les-paul.1617639%2F&psig=AOvVaw04oY7EyT-5hCUFf4QAhrVv&ust=1631098157374000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CAgQjRxqFwoTCLCDqaTY7PICFQAAAAAdAAAAABAD

If course this doesn't stop one from rewiring the pots, but I'm not sure the taper is all that good for independent wiring.  The last time I tried this on my DOT it didn't work so hot. With the normal combined wiring the taper is ideal for working the pot between 7~10 for blending the two.  Independently, the second pot disappeared completely within that range and dialing back using distortion often required 3/4 of a turn down on a single pup.  

As others said, you simply need to try it and use it awhile that way. Personally I think the normal combined wiring is genius for tone and control.  Like I said, I do have several instruments with the volume independently wired but these were exceptions based mostly on tonal considerations.  Since I mostly record now I'm not worried about blinding stage lights and fiddling to find the knobs. I can use whatever wiring that provides the tones I want. 

You want something really complex. Wire a strat with three independent volumes. Cool blends but its an ass for live work.    

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