Need some PA advice

[JoeDirt]

I am new to the FOH sound (always just played the drums for the bands I have been in) so be gentle please.

 

I am considering buying the following for a FOH system:

 

1 - A&H Mix Wizard3 16:2

2 - SBa760 subs

2 - SXA360 tops

 

This is for a 5 piece classic rock band that will mostly be playing small to medium bars of around 150 people maximum.

 

2 guitarists, 1 bass, 1 lead singer and myself which uses a Roland TD-20 electronic kit so my drums will definitely be going through the FOH for basically all of the drum sound (other than some stage monitor sound). We mostly play Heart, Boston, Pat Benetar, Journey type rock.

 

The only thing I am concerned about is the subs not having enough thump. Are these 15" good enough to feel some bass in a small to medium sized bar or should I be looking at maybe some PRX518S to pair with the EV tops?

 

We are all 40+ years old so of course the lighter the better but I also want to sound good. Since I am starting from scratch I figured powered speakers would be easier than getting amps, etc.

[abzurd]

You can't go wrong with the Mixwiz, BUT do you have EQ's? You'll at least need one on FOH and one on each monitor mix, preferably 31 band.

 

For what it's worth, EV is discontinuing both the tops and subs you're looking at. That could mean discounts as they close them out so shop around.

[Chickentown]

I don't have experience with those speakers. You're in the unique position of buying everything at once and you might consider looking for package deals such as: http://www.audioeast.com/systems.htm

[RoadRanger]

I just love the folks that come in here and post the same exact thing (cut&paste) over at PSW:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/51199/187/

Hope the OP is enjoying the flames over there .

[TrickyBoy]

I just love the folks that come in here and post the same exact thing (cut&paste) over at PSW: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/51199/187/ Hope the OP is enjoying the flames over there .

 

Sorry to hijack a thread as a complete PA noobie (I spend most of my HC time on the Guitar or Backstage forums), but I need to buy a new PA, and this link seemed like it would have something that might work.

 

We're a 4-piece - bass, drums, guitar and vocals - We currently have 2 passive speakers (15") and a behringer powered board (700W I think). I personally think it sounds really thin.

 

We generally play rooms that hold between 200 and 400 people.

 

Is the EON-system-I sufficient? Is that PRX system-II overkill? Should I go in a different direction all together? Any help is greatly appreciated.

[RoadRanger]

I think you meant this link:

http://www.audioeast.com/systems.htm

and just call them up, they don't bite hardly at all . Seriously the folks there will work with you to get you something that won't suck. A room of 400 people requires a pretty serious system (two 2x18 subs, biamp'd tops w/2" exit HF drivers) and IMO for 400 people you really shouldn't be trying to run sound from the stage anyways...

[allexcosta]

Sorry to hijack a thread (...)

 

Don't take me wrong, but folks are still talking here. It's free to open a new thread. :poke: Go for it!

[TrickyBoy]

I think you meant this link: http://www.audioeast.com/systems.htm and just call them up, they don't bite hardly at all . Seriously the folks there will work with you to get you something that won't suck. A room of 400 people requires a pretty serious system (two 2x18 subs, biamp'd tops w/2" exit HF drivers) and IMO for 400 people you really shouldn't be trying to run sound from the stage anyways...

 

You're right re: link. My bad. Thanks for the advice. I'll give them a call.

[Shaster]

 

I am considering buying the following for a FOH system: 1 - A&H Mix Wizard3 16:2 2 - SBa760 subs 2 - SXA360 tops This is for a 5 piece classic rock band that will mostly be playing small to medium bars of around 150 people maximum. 2 guitarists, 1 bass, 1 lead singer and myself which uses a Roland TD-20 electronic kit so my drums will definitely be going through the FOH for basically all of the drum sound (other than some stage monitor sound). We mostly play Heart, Boston, Pat Benetar, Journey type rock.

 

 

Let me say this about that. My main rig comes in at a bit over CDN $15,000. And that's short a drum monitor which I borrow from my "B" rig, or rent.

 

My FOH speakers (Unity U15's) and subs are list with tax $4368.00. My MixWiz is list w/ tax about $1350, so the above total is $5718.00 (sure, you can take 15 to 20% off to convert it to USA dollars:)). So where did the rest of the money go? Yes you guessed it; monitors, cables, stands, AC, clips, windscreens, EQs, drop snake, Driverack.... of course.

 

I think I'm just echoing the fact that while you're starting fresh, include everything in your proposed system, to realistically assess and complile your PA pieces.

[banddad]

Your mixer choice is great! I can't speak for the speakers (good pun?!) though, only due to lack of experience with them.

 

Powered speakers are an excellent choice for where you are, and starting out. JBL's PRX series (512 mains over 518 subs) would be a good value choice.

 

Think KISS. Start simple, add more as you need it and learn about what you have, and what you may need. You'll probably end up wanting monitors (think more PRX512's), which the A&H board is good for, especially for the vocalist.

 

You may never end up needing any outboard effects, the A&H has some nice effects for vocals. EQ's are usually the first thing to add, I keep mine pretty flat, so start simple. Compressors and such are fine, but it's a subtle improvement, and I wouldn't recommend them unless you have an experienced sound guy runnign sound from the audience.

 

Cheers!

[allexcosta]

Don't understand why the OP is getting all the heat.

He clearly asked about his FOH only, not monitors, stands, DI's or mics.

I've done sound without FOH Equalizers quite a few times using HPR's and sounded pretty decent. Have played MANY times without returns too. No biggie.

 

JoeDirt, your choices are fine, the EV subs are good, don't worry. Add one or two monitors strategically placed onstage (I happen to like EV's SXA250 as a full range cab that has good lows and clear highs) and don't go crazy loud. Buy a couple of equalizers when you have a chance (yeah, dbx 215's are fine) and learn how to control your system with the minimum. You'll need a kick mic, 2 or 3 for vocals and a pair of SM57's (snare and guitar). The semi-parametric on your board is your best friend, use it!

 

You'll sound just fine in no time... Good luck!

[Shaster]

Yes OP's choices are fine and good.

 

Speaking for my self, I guess because he posted and responded elsewhere, I was probably responding to something that's not here.

 

Heard a "rumour" he was trying to get his whole rig for $5K, and was hoping to save him the shock when the PA price creep starts.

[Bobby1Note]

JoeDirt,

 

I think you've been doing your homework. Very nice selection of components you've chosen.

 

Obviously, you'll need cables if you don't already have some, and I can HIGHLY recommend EWI cables, snakes, D.I.'s etc. Just great value for money spent.

 

"Most" of the guys have given you constructive advice, so I'd say, consider that advice in your future expansion plans. My advice; think longterm. Consider what your next purchases might be before you get there, and what impact those future choices will have on your current list of components. Example; If you eventually buy more powerful tops for larger gigs, will your present "mains" be useful as monitors, etc.

 

Good luck, and above all, have fun with your new venture. Come back in confidence to pose your questions, and welcome to the forum.

 

Bob

[JoeDirt]

Thanks for the responses.

 

5K was about what I was paying for what I have listed above. Nothing more. I doubt I'll be using a snake since most likely we'll be running our own sound from on stage.

 

Monitors and mics will be band members own responsibilities.

 

I just wanted advice mainly on the sound quality of the tops, subs and the mixer combo. Especially considering I am running the drums through them (e-drums).

[allexcosta]

Heard a "rumour" he was trying to get his whole rig for $5K, and was hoping to save him the shock when the PA price creep starts.

 

Easily doable IMO...

From the stuff I currently own, I paid:

 

$500 for a pair of RCF322 (tops)

$450 for a pair of MACKIE SRS1500 (subs)

$200 for a pair of DB TECHNOLOGIES Opera 412 (monitors)

$650 for a new SXA250 (drummer monitor)

$100 for an older Yamaha mixer (works fine)

$30 for a MXL condenser

$120 for a D6 (got a pair of SM57's free)

$150 for 3 SM58's

 

That's 2200 bucks. Got 2800 left for cables, compressors, EQ's, cases, poles, etc... Craigslist is your friend.

[glepko]

 

Thanks for the responses. 5K was about what I was paying for what I have listed above. Nothing more. I doubt I'll be using a snake since most likely we'll be running our own sound from on stage. Monitors and mics will be band members own responsibilities. I just wanted advice mainly on the sound quality of the tops, subs and the mixer combo. Especially considering I am running the drums through them (e-drums).

 

 

are you sure you want to leave monitors and mics to the individual? unless you can all agree on a standard package, mixed wedges and mics often lead to a ton of trouble ime.

[Craig Vecchione]

I just love the folks that come in here and post the same exact thing (cut&paste) over at PSW: http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/51199/187/ Hope the OP is enjoying the flames over there .

 

Here's the thing; the OP specifically stated he was considering some stuff "for a FOH system". Bennett jumped all over him, and a few of us here seem to have also missed this detail.

 

If I ask about a microphone, do I need someone to chime in and tell me I'll need a stand, cable, mixer, EQ, crossover, amps, mid-highs, subs, cases, and a trailer for that?

[DaBender]

I can't believe what those guys at PSW think is necessary to play clubs. Obviously, their club scene is different than what I'm used to. I see international blues acts that seem perfectly happy to use a PA costing $5,000 or so.

[JoeDirt]

 

are you sure you want to leave monitors and mics to the individual? unless you can all agree on a standard package, mixed wedges and mics often lead to a ton of trouble ime.

 

 

Keep in mind the drumset will NOT be micced (it's e-drums) and thus I don't plan on miccing the guitars either. So basically only the vocals will be micced and I am 99% sure the lead vocalist and the backup singer (bass player) both use an SM58.

 

As for monitors basically I will have one for the drums with a 15" in it so people on stage can hear the kick well (in addition to the rest of the kit) and I know the singer has a SRM450 to use. The stages we play on are fairly small so between my monitor and the singer's I think it will be covered pretty well.

[jwlussow]

Problem is a true noob might not realize that he needs more then just a mixer and speakers to have a full blown PA. We have all seen these conversations that make it to the third page before the OP asks what a crossover is. It is hard to assume the OP understands the whole picture or not. I say that because one of the first gigs I ever played (1977) we rented the sound system (horns, mids, subs,) and borrowed some amps. We set the thing up and it sounded like crap. We called the rental place and he asked where the crossover point was set. I had no clue what he was talking about. Luckily we didn't kill the horns, but I thought I knew what I needed before I even knew a crossover existed.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Problem is a true noob might not realize that he needs more then just a mixer and speakers to have a full blown PA. We have all seen these conversations that make it to the third page before the OP asks what a crossover is. It is hard to assume the OP understands the whole picture or not. I say that because one of the first gigs I ever played (1977) we rented the sound system (horns, mids, subs,) and borrowed some amps. We set the thing up and it sounded like crap. We called the rental place and he asked where the crossover point was set. I had no clue what he was talking about. Luckily we didn't kill the horns, but I thought I knew what I needed before I even knew a crossover existed.

 

 

My point was that jumping all over someone while assuming something that wasn't stated is not the most professional way to handle a post. If we don't know, ask first to clarify. Save everyone from hurt feelings and wasted time.

[RoadRanger]

My point was that jumping all over someone while assuming something that wasn't stated is not the most professional way to handle a post. If we don't know, ask first to clarify. Save everyone from hurt feelings and wasted time.

I kinda think of PSW as the "beat me until it feels good" version of this forum .

[Craig Vecchione]

I kinda think of PSW as the "beat me until it feels good" version of this forum .

 

I'm not even referring to PSW...don't care what they do over there.

[1tribe]

I agree with Craig here. Bennett is a sound provider not a weekend band out having fun. (not to mention sells speakers that cost about 3 grand per box). I think he is over looking what was really asked. A starting system with the EV boxes-tops & subs and the Mixwiz is the makings of a nice system.

[Shaster]

 

We are all 40+ years old so of course the lighter the better but I also want to sound good. Since I am starting from scratch I figured powered speakers would be easier than getting amps, etc.

 

 

Once again, speaking only for myself "starting from scratch" presents a rare opportunity, and plenty of room for an eventual sticker shock.

 

When someone asks about Behringer, folks here often try to alter the course of that proposed purchase by raising the awareness level of the poster. I believe this thread has had similar good intentions for the most part.

 

And yes, you can put a PA together for under $5K, but not by buying the components the OP was talking about at new prices. I believe he is aware of his overall PA needs now, and am happy to see that.