Members jgthatsme Posted December 21, 2009 Members Share Posted December 21, 2009 My cargo trailer has two side marker lights on each side of the trailer at the top and two reflectors on each side at the bottom. There are also two lights, one facing the front and the other facing the rear, on the fenders which cover the wheels. When it's warm outside (let's say in the summer time), only two lights will work on one side of the trailer and three on the other when I connect my trailer to my truck. After I'm on the road for about 20 minutes, every light will magically work. It's the same process at the end of the night when I load up the trailer - some work and some don't, but after I'm on the road for a little while they will all work. When it's cold outside, like it was yesterday here in Buffalo, NY (20 degrees or so), every light will work the instant I connect the trailer to my truck. Any idea what the heck the problem might be? I checked every connection that I can see and I don't see any problems. I really don't feel like tearing off the interior walls and rewiring everything unless I absolutely must (but I fear that's what I'll end up doing). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 21, 2009 Members Share Posted December 21, 2009 Possiby a Scotchlock splice is bad. Another possibility is two grounds, one through the hitch ball that is intermittent until you move it around a bit. Third possibility is a faulty pin in the connector, nasty environment so I give it a spray of Caig DeOxit once a year and works great. Check for loose binding screws at the termimals too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 21, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Gotta be bad connections at wire junctions, or at the individual lamps. A bad trailer connector or ground would result in no lights working at all. Is it the same sets of lights not working each time? If so, look for that bad Scotchlock Andy mentions (or whatever hot mess they used to connect wires). Replace it with either soldered and shrinkwrapped junctions (best), or crimped and heatshrunk mechanical connectors. Get marine connectors with adhesive shrink built in, and then apply an additional shrink tube over it. Road salt, vibration, and water are not our friends. Trailer marker lamps suck. Count on some of them having intermittent contacts that look just fine but don't pass electrons. Replace them. Silicone the hell out of the new ones to keep corrosion to a minimum, just be careful not to get any on the socket contacts. There's almost no reason you would need to pull new wire unless a screw got run through one, or it got badly pinched during assembly. Your symptoms don't really sound like a pierced or pinched wire. Look at the trailer carefully to see if you can figure out where the wiring is actually run, so you can start to "see" where a bad junction might cause a group of lights to fail. Then dive in. Don't just start yanking and replacing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 21, 2009 Members Share Posted December 21, 2009 Was thinking there might be two seperate grounds, one a frame ground and another seperate ground for isolated fixtures/lamps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Was thinking there might be two seperate grounds, one a frame ground and another seperate ground for isolated fixtures/lamps. It's rare and not recommended to use the hitch as a ground path, but if it is, all circuits will use both the hitch and the connector ground. Of course, if the trailer's a home-built or was "fixed" by an amateur..... Most likely the problem is Buffalo winters and road salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 Sometimes there will be two ground paths, one for the main lights and one for the aux supply. Electric brakes are another possibility for breaking up ground paths. It really depeds on how the trailer was wired and to to what standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Sometimes there will be two ground paths, one for the main lights and one for the aux supply. Electric brakes are another possibility for breaking up ground paths. It really depeds on how the trailer was wired and to to what standard. Electric brakes use the same ground as the lighting. There's no need for multiple grounds, as they all go to the same place, the tow vehicle frame or ground wire. A 7-pin connector can handle as large a gauge wire as you need. http://www.etrailer.com/faq-wiring.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have seen multiple grounds, with the aux system using one ground path and the rest of the trailer using the other. I would be suspect that the intermittent circuit is using the hitch coupler as the ground path. I always us ethe standard wiring and the 7 pin connector for all connections, but there's a lot of odd stuff out there. Assuming it has the 7 pin connector of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I've been patiently waiting for jg to get back to us on which lights are cutting out. That will give better clues as to what's happening here. For sure, there are some who mistakenly use the hitch as a ground path. It's not a reliable connection at all, as it relies on several mechanical connections that were never intended to pass current...frame to hitch, hitch to receiver, ball to trailer. None are bonded, and typically you'll see considerable and variable resistance or an open circuit. The fact that a reliable ground exists in every trailer connector format from 4 to 7 pins, and there are enough connections for any circuit makes this practice unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgthatsme Posted December 22, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 Well, the trailer isn't a home-made job. It's made by Haulmark and I'm not sure they have a dealer in my area any longer. The shop I bought it from was bought out by another commercial trailer company and they completely dropped the consumer line of trailers. I suppose I could get in touch w/ Haulmark and ask their advice too. Anyway, the top, rear marker light on the right side of the trailer, the forward-facing light on the right fender, and the rear facing light on the left fender are the lights which take their sweet, old time illuminating. I think they use the frame of the trailer as a ground. There's nothing connected to the truck other than the 4 wire switch. It's too damn cold to futs with it now, even in the garage. It's definitely a spring project at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Well, the trailer isn't a home-made job. It's made by Haulmark and I'm not sure they have a dealer in my area any longer. The shop I bought it from was bought out by another commercial trailer company and they completely dropped the consumer line of trailers. I suppose I could get in touch w/ Haulmark and ask their advice too.Anyway, the top, rear marker light on the right side of the trailer, the forward-facing light on the right fender, and the rear facing light on the left fender are the lights which take their sweet, old time illuminating.I think they use the frame of the trailer as a ground. There's nothing connected to the truck other than the 4 wire switch. It's too damn cold to futs with it now, even in the garage. It's definitely a spring project at the earliest. There would be no element common to these lamps that's not common to others. So the problem is very likely a bad connection at each of these lamps. I'm familiar with Haulmark, and they're a good product. Yes, the lamps should have individual ground lugs into the frame at each lamp. The trailer connector white wire takes the frame ground near the hitch. What you're likely to see is a single hot wire running up to the front marker, back down and back to the front fender marker, to the rear fender marker, up to the rear corner, and possibly ending there or running across the back if the trailer's got over-80" markers. Each lamp will have a pigtail ground to a lug using a star washer and bolt into the frame. Look at those first....remove them, wire-brush the metal, replace the washers and reassemble. The lug crimp-ons will likely not be sealed, so replacing them with adhesive-sealed marine terminals will help. I've often seen roadsalt corrode the wire strands well up into the insulation, so sealing and shrink-tubing is a good preventive measure. Also look for lamps with bum sockets. These trailer lamps are cheap and MIC. Frankly, if the trailer is more than 3-4 years old, may as well buy new and simply replace them. Sealed LED units are a good idea, but you need to do complete pairings and sets or it'll look "off" on the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 I agre that it's most likely the ground connection to the chassis at each light too. This is symptomatic of poor mechanical assembly (no star washer or paint not cut through) and a pop rivit type hardware. Could also be bad lamp holder sockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members laidback Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 It could be a lot of things, but I'd look first at the ground connection. You should have a ground wire from the trailer pigtail attached to the tailer frame somewhere close to the coupler. In my experience, that's the first place I'd look. An easy test: Create a good ground to the trailer frame and try it. If it works, problem solved. Troubleshoot this problem with a 12v test light, not a voltmeter. A high-impedance connection somewhere might still show 12 volts but won't be able to carry enough current to light up a bulb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 It's made by Haulmark I have a Haulmark KD7X12, tandem axel 12ft. built in '05. I had a similar funky light problem when I bought my trailer. I traced the problem down to this (as I recall): Mounted on the tongue frame, to the left of the jack is a black box. Inside the black box is a battery (emergency brake battery I believe). Under the battery is a terminal strip which as I recall connects the umbilical cord to the trailer body wiring. I discovered two problems with the wiring in the general area of this terminal strip: 1) The installation of the wiring within the bottom of this box was... well... "cub scout" at best... pretty much a jumbled mess with crimp connections that weren't very well crimped. 2) The battery had gone dead, froze, and broke, liberally applying battery acid to the jumbled mess of wires under it. I pulled the whole mess apart and did a total over-haul. All the lights and brakes work perfect now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 It could be a lot of things, but I'd look first at the ground connection. You should have a ground wire from the trailer pigtail attached to the tailer frame somewhere close to the coupler. In my experience, that's the first place I'd look. An easy test: Create a good ground to the trailer frame and try it. If it works, problem solved. Troubleshoot this problem with a 12v test light, not a voltmeter. A high-impedance connection somewhere might still show 12 volts but won't be able to carry enough current to light up a bulb. The OP's problem is with a few individual lights. A poor trailer ground would result in all lighting cutting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have a Haulmark KD7X12, tandem axel 12ft. built in '05. I had a similar funky light problem when I bought my trailer. I traced the problem down to this (as I recall):Mounted on the tongue frame, to the left of the jack is a black box. Inside the black box is a battery (emergency brake battery I believe). Under the battery is a terminal strip which as I recall connects the umbilical cord to the trailer body wiring. I discovered two problems with the wiring in the general area of this terminal strip:1) The installation of the wiring within the bottom of this box was... well... "cub scout" at best... pretty much a jumbled mess with crimp connections that weren't very well crimped.2) The battery had gone dead, froze, and broke, liberally applying battery acid to the jumbled mess of wires under it.I pulled the whole mess apart and did a total over-haul. All the lights and brakes work perfect now. Talk about a "built to fail" arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 Talk about a "built to fail" arrangement. In all fairness, I purchased the trailer used... so come to think of it, that battery box/terminal strip assemblage might not have been factory built. It looks to me like it could have been added on later (maybe at a dealership)... as possibly a local compliance thing. From what I can tell, if the trailer comes unhooked from the tow vehicle, the battery is suppose to active the trailer brakes. That one aspect of the trailer is not representative of the build quality of the rest of the trailer, which I have no complaint or issues with (the rest of the trailer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 22, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 In all fairness, I purchased the trailer used... so come to think of it, that battery box/terminal strip assemblage might not have been factory built. It looks to me like it could have been added on later (maybe at a dealership)... as possibly a local compliance thing. From what I can tell, if the trailer comes unhooked from the tow vehicle, the battery is suppose to active the trailer brakes. That one aspect of the trailer is not representative of the build quality of the rest of the trailer, which I have no complaint or issues with (the rest of the trailer). Yes, that's definitely the "breakaway" braking control. The battery is supposed to be charged by the tow vehicle. There would be a control unit with a lanyard attached, that gets hooked to (and typically entangled in) the safety chain loops. In the event of a hitch failure, the lanyard yanks on the control unit switch, and the battery will suply enough 12v juice for the 10 seconds or so it takes to halt the trailer. In theory, a good idea. In practice, the stackup of tolerances throughout the trailer braking system and electrical system conspire to thwart a controlled stop. Add to this the fact that those who fail to maintain their hitch are probably an order or two of magnitude less likely to maintain the battery and associated circuitry. Those small batteries die in about a month if not kept on a charger, so rarely used trailers usually have dead batteries. An f'd up hitch is likely to fail before the battery is recharged, assuming it isn't killed dead. I nearly always do a "running inspection" when passing a tow vehicle on the highway, and often see the lanyard looped back and hooked onto the trailer frame. I'm pretty certain that Haulmark offers the breakaway system as an option, and I suspect it's dealer-installed. Many trailer dealers in this area are mostly big-rig trailer shops that dabble in this small stuff as a side business, or are tiny outlets that sell sheds and other outside stuff and have no real shop or trained techs. Hence, the spaghetti-bowl o' wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 22, 2009 Members Share Posted December 22, 2009 Anybody have the breakaway hitch brakes operate? Holy crapola, locks up the trailer brakes (it's all or nothing) and now you have a fishtailing potential disaster connected to the tail end of your now fishtailing vehicle. I think it would be better having a controlled deceleration rather than an out of control trailer chasing you down. I haven't, except to test the concept to see if it was reasonable. Definately not rasonable or safe IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jgthatsme Posted December 23, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 23, 2009 My trailer does not have brakes so the aforementioned potential issues aren't applicable. I didn't want another maintenance item so I bought the biggest trailer I could get which wasn't required to have electrical brakes. I believe the trailer can hold 2,000 lbs. which is more than enough for my current needs. I would just like to say THANK YOU to each of you for your helpful suggestions!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 23, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 Anybody have the breakaway hitch brakes operate? Holy crapola, locks up the trailer brakes (it's all or nothing) and now you have a fishtailing potential disaster connected to the tail end of your now fishtailing vehicle. I think it would be better having a controlled deceleration rather than an out of control trailer chasing you down.I haven't, except to test the concept to see if it was reasonable. Definately not rasonable or safe IMO. The breakaway is supposed to operate in the event of a total disconnect...not when the hitch fails and drops onto the safety chains. And that's the problem I see sometimes; the lanyard might be too short to allow the hitch to disconnect and it yanks the controller into oh{censored} mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted December 23, 2009 CMS Author Share Posted December 23, 2009 My trailer does not have brakes so the aforementioned potential issues aren't applicable. I didn't want another maintenance item so I bought the biggest trailer I could get which wasn't required to have electrical brakes. I believe the trailer can hold 2,000 lbs. which is more than enough for my current needs. I would just like to say THANK YOU to each of you for your helpful suggestions!!! Oh geez. Regardless of what your state MV law might require, you should have brakes on that trailer. God help you if you have to panic stop on a curve. Even a hard braking on a straight road can easily jackknife you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted December 23, 2009 Members Share Posted December 23, 2009 You really should KNOW the empty trailer weight and the GTWR AND the approximate weight of the gear you load in the trailer. In Pennsylvania, for example, you have to have trailer brakes for 3K# GTWR. One of my trailers (10x6x6) is rated at 2995#, no brakes and I'd NOT recommend that capacity without brakes. However, while Craig's suggestion to always get trailer brakes is a good one, I also tow a 2K# GTWR trailer (8.5x4x4) without brakes and that one is fine towing. Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 23, 2009 Members Share Posted December 23, 2009 The breakaway is supposed to operate in the event of a total disconnect...not when the hitch fails and drops onto the safety chains. And that's the problem I see sometimes; the lanyard might be too short to allow the hitch to disconnect and it yanks the controller into oh{censored} mode. This appears to be subject to interpretation by the various jurisdictions. I was told to tighten up my lanyard at an inspection. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted December 23, 2009 Members Share Posted December 23, 2009 God help you if you have to panic stop on a curve. Even a hard braking on a straight road can easily jackknife you. It never ceases to amaze me how much steeper and LONGER down hill runs are with a heavily or even moderately loaded trailer behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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