Members NUSound Posted February 9, 2010 Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 The title basically says it all... I'm working for a group that has a full horn section, but one of their sax players is giving me a lot of trouble with key noise coming through her mic. I've played around with mic placement and turning up the high-pass, but I'm still having issues. I've suggested getting the horn re-padded, but obviously I can't make them do that. Any advice/ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 9, 2010 Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 Drop her level down a little bit until she gets her instrument repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jon Hiller Posted February 9, 2010 Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 If she has key noise it's from needing key corks and not a problem with her pads. This is not usually an expensive repair to have done, we usually do key corks in my shop for 50 cents each, unless it's in a place where you have to just about take the entire horn apart to get to the key to cork it, but that doesn't happen very often if you have key clamps and dentists tools to use to put the corks on the keys with, you can get into pretty tight places with the dentist tools...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members NUSound Posted February 9, 2010 Author Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 If she has key noise it's from needing key corks and not a problem with her pads. This is not usually an expensive repair to have done, we usually do key corks in my shop for 50 cents each, unless it's in a place where you have to just about take the entire horn apart to get to the key to cork it, but that doesn't happen very often if you have key clamps and dentists tools to use to put the corks on the keys with, you can get into pretty tight places with the dentist tools...... Thanks for the tip. I'm actually a sax player by trade, so it's kind of frustrating when routine maintenance gets overlooked. Usually I just send my horns in once a year, for a once-over to get recorked/repadded "as needed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted February 9, 2010 Members Share Posted February 9, 2010 A little bit of key noise is nice to have - it lets you know it's a real instrument. If it's (more than) enough to bother you, it's time to have that conversation about it. That being said, you can cut the highs on that mic a fair bit before most people will notice anything amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 Also try turning down the gain on the channel and then bringing the slider up. This will cut down the sensitivity of the mic a bit so that it might not pick up the key noise so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mnash Posted February 10, 2010 Members Share Posted February 10, 2010 Keeping the felt and cork bumpers in good repair helps, but also regularly oiling the rods, rollers and rockers can significantly reduce key noise. Usually it's one or two keys that are making most of the racket, and a few minutes should be all it takes to isolate the problems and stick a wad of gum or piece of duct tape on it. I would never do that on my horn, of course! Some key noise is unavoidable, though. When I'm rockin' and competing with those !@#$%^ guitars, it is about as audible as a mouse fart, though. Only when the music level is real quiet is it ever a problem, which is like just barely more than never. I use a clip-on condenser mic pointed into the bell, it's pretty directional but still doesn't completely exclude key noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted February 14, 2010 Members Share Posted February 14, 2010 Also try turning down the gain on the channel and then bringing the slider up. This will cut down the sensitivity of the mic a bit so that it might not pick up the key noise so much. Doing this will make no difference whatsoever. Gain is gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 14, 2010 Members Share Posted February 14, 2010 Also try turning down the gain on the channel and then bringing the slider up. This will cut down the sensitivity of the mic a bit so that it might not pick up the key noise so much. Won't help one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mike M Posted February 14, 2010 Members Share Posted February 14, 2010 I play saxophone. The only time I ever heard about issues with key noise was when I was in music school and we were playing accoustic (Creston Sonata, etc.) at recitals. I've played many times on mics (wired/wireless) and never had issues....even with a leaky horn..IMHO, if key noise is competing with her tone, then tell the gal to play louder. Proper air support will solve this issue..... Mike M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members B. Adams Posted February 14, 2010 Members Share Posted February 14, 2010 If it was a guitar player playing with bad fret buzz, you'd suggest that they get their guitar set-up/repaired/replaced, or maybe play differently. If they didn't, that's their decision. If this horn player doesn't want to sound good after your suggestions, there's not much you can do about it. Maybe record the sax channel so she can hear how bad her horn sounds, perhaps that would cause her to improve things. Garbage in, garbage out. You can only polish a turd so much, and in the end it's still a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Also try turning down the gain on the channel and then bringing the slider up. This will cut down the sensitivity of the mic a bit so that it might not pick up the key noise so much. what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 15, 2010 Members Share Posted February 15, 2010 Well, it seems to work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 Well, it seems to work for me. Then you have found a way to violate Nyquist's therom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 Ok, it is my perception of what is happening, not what is actually happening. Forget I said anything and move on. Nothing to see here. Just a guy talking out his ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 If you explore this in more detail,I expect that you will discover that there is something else that is causing you to think this. Play around with yours system but be sure to match acyual gain changes and maybe you will find that there is something wrong with a piece of the system or maybe there is a compressor that's not tracking as you might expect. If there is DSP processing involved, there may be some dynamics device that's inserted in the signal path that you are not aware of. This is a common cause of exactly what you are describing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 If that is the case, then it is likely something I don't want to see fixed. It gives me another tool to clean up the sound. Other sound men have been very complimentary of the way our system sounds and of my mix, so even if it isn't "right" it seems to work. Why screw something up by "fixing" it. The signal chain though is stage to FOH board, channel compression/Gates, Out of the board to Driverack 260, out to amps/speakers with the lows sent from an aux to a crossover, to the amps for aux fed subs. I don't own the PA and I don't know how Jerry configured limiters and such on the Driverack. But he is an engineer who worked for Saint Louis Music, so I trust him to know what he is doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 Almost definately diue to either the inserted compression or compression/limiting in the RD260. Why mess with it by fixing it? Because some day it will bite you in the ass, and when it does you will have no idea why or how. Then you will not have a good solution. You will be in the dark and be at the mercy of your situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Phil Clark Posted February 16, 2010 Members Share Posted February 16, 2010 It's been like this for over 7 years, and still not bitten. I think we're good. It may not be right, but it works and doesn't cause problems, so ipso facto, it is right(ish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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