Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Any time you modify the running gear of a trailer, you may need to get it re-certified if the changes may alter the dynamics or stability. Putting a 7000 lb axle on a "lightweight" trailer may cause unforseen issues like Craig mentioned. A trailer is only as strong as the weakest link and if stability is made worse, you are in bigger trouble. The only real choice is to buy the properly rated trailer in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Well after some research on my trailer it has a gross weight capacity of 2990lbs. I can't find anywhere on it, Pace's site or the internet about the curb weight unloaded but the camparable ones they are building now are 1000lbs. The heaviest of other brands of the same size are 1200lbs so if my gear weighs 2000 I am at the limit. I think pulling peoples personal gear off except for the bass player who pulls it will take off 450lbs and give me some wiggle room if I want to add another set of subs @ 120lbs each. I will be looking hard at the rest of my stuff to see if I can lighten the load some more. All of the caparable trailers to mine had 3500lb axles. See that car in my avatar? My problem is I view things like that car. How can I make it better but unlike that car this trailer has severe limits to what can be done. Yes I can spend 800 to 1000 to make the suspension strong. Or I can take that money, sell the trailer and buy a dual axle trailer that does not have the limitations the single does. I priced some and they are not that bad. 2800.00 will get me a really nice used one. I can sell my trailer for what I have in it which is 1200 bucks. I have 700 already set aside. Then sell of all the gear I am hoarding but will never use to get me to where I need to be. 7x14 dual axle sounds real nice. More trailer than I need so I will have room to spare and like someone said I can make a center walk way and have more than enough growing space. Now I need to get one with a ramp. I guess that Presonus will have to wait. My trailer can pull my PA but the added stage gear puts it over its limit. That gear is coming off this weekend. Here is an example of what I want. Wish I was ready to buy now or I would be all over this. http://louisville.craigslist.org/for/1615358823.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 7 x 14 is pretty big, you might find it limiting at some venues. 6' or 6'-6" wide is probably a better choice unless you have plenty of room at the places you play. At our venue, if you are wider than about 7 feet (including wheels), it requires a different loading permit since the loading alley must allow other vehicles to pass unless a closure permit is obtained. For busses and tractor-trailer rigs it's a no-brainer and the cost s small compared with the other production costs, but for a smaller show, another $100 is $100 you won't be taking home with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 We don't have the parking issues that alot of you have. Most places we play have their own parking lots and because we are the first to arrive we get the best spots. Even the clubs downtown are much easier parking wise for us than for most others on this board in other citys. A 7x14 is more than I need and a 6x12 is a perfect size for right now but does not allow for any growth unless we start stacking and I don't want to do that. Plus a 6x12 dual axles are rarer to find used. I would need to weigh the cost difference of a 6x12 dual axle new vs a 7x14 dually used. Right now based on the places we play and know most of the clubs we will be playing I am liking the 7x14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stevieb Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Didn't see this on page 1, I don't normally read beyond that: A LONG trailer is easier to BACK UP than a short one. Short trailer/long tow vehicle jack-knives NOW when backing. Longer trailers turn more slowly when backing, and thus are easier to control. In general, you want 60% of the weight in front of the axle center-line, to control fish-tailing. Trust me on this, fish-tailing is NOT fun... Appoint a Load-master, who's duties is to ensure the trailer gets loaded tightly and efficiently each gig/trip. He/she's in charge of load-in/out, and everybody takes orders from him/her at that time. LM should be a different person than whomever deals with the venue manager and/or sound man- that way, two or three things get done at the same time when you first arrive at the gig. Spend a Saturday morning practice-loading the trailer, the first time, with everybody in the band (and everybody who travels with the band) there, helping. Determine the weight of each piece of gear, test-load the trailer one front-to-back layer at a time, and try at least a few different configurations of each layer, to maximize space use. Then take a picture of each layer. That way, you have a record of the best way to load, each trip. If you wanted to be totally OCD about this, you could make arrangements with the seller to let you load the trailer before you buy, to make sure it will fit your load. And always buy larger than you currently need. Gear will be replace/upgraded/supplemented, won't always get loaded in "properly,", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members boomerweps Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 For the original poster: Do a gear inventory and add up the WEIGHTS! I actually do the "Step on scale, weigh me, lift cable box, step on scale again, subtract my weight" and maintain as accurate an inventory with weights as I can. Second, with specific weights in mind, NOW you can size the trailer for you. Most states REQUIRE trailer brakes at 3000 pounds. Hence, like in Pennsylvania, a single axle no brakes trailer is rated at 2990# evn though these usually have a 3500# rated axle and combined tires above that. Narrower trailers are easier to see around, track in the tow vehicles windsteam and tire tracks, MUCH better in narrow lanes, and don't require those stick out trailering mirrors. And less curb damage to the tires ;>( As you may notice in this thread and other trailer threads (please search), there can be a tendency to think "I have space I can't be overloaded", this is severely untrue. Bandmates who don't tow usually think this way. If you find a smaller trailer that will suit your needs, I strongly suggest getting brakes around the 2500 pound GTWR point. Extra height is good and you can custom order new trailers with extra height. CarMate will increase height in 6" increments over square. Downside to added height is no drive through dinners, and increased wind drag on the tow vehicle. This can be partially offset by the lowering Thorsen axle (after the inventor), usually miscalled "torsion", which also acts like having shock absorbers on the trailer. I currently tow a small 4x4x8.5 (wish it was 10) foot 2K# GTWR with a load in my Explorer and in my buddy's Astrovan. No brakes on that. I used to tow a 6x6x10, no brakes, with my Expedition. I KNOW I had to have that near the 3.5K# axle limit and over the legal 3K# GTWR. I had the Expedition loaded with gear and the band and it was WORK towing and stopping that combo. My open ocean large ship sailoring came in handy cause that's the way it stopped. I finally had to have it out with the band about it and we divided the load and I got the smaller trailer to haul just the stuff I owned. Gas was killin' me, too. My original decision was to buy a 5x5x10 but for the same price I got the 10x6x6 with side door at last year's pricing. If I'd have stuck to my original plan, I would never have had to buy the 4x4x8.5. Like Mark, I'll not likely get rid of either trailer, they both come in real handy. Oh, yeah, LED lights. GET 'EM. MY first trailer has conventional lights on the dual rear doors. Open the doors and the lights are gone. My small trailer has long LEDS on the door frame. Single door, open it and the lights still show on one side. With a ramp they'd show on both sides. Vents on top are good for hot climates. I'm in snow, I like to be able to clear the top off without worrying about busting a plastic dome. Interior lights are darn near a must. I added some old fog lights to the rear door frame facing in on the bigger trailer. No head space on the little one so I have to use a flashlight ;>( With a larger trailer and heavy loads subject to shifting, depending on your gear, trailer and load plan, E-Track tie downs are GREAT. Factory installed is best so it's laid out right for your trailer stud/bracing. I added it to my bigger trailer, mostly for moving refrigerators ;>). Side doors are nice, BUT...Depending on how close they are to the front wall, it will severely limit your shelving options. I added a shelf to the front and non-door side of mine. I cut the front shelf at a diagonal to gain more space and set it at the right height from the roof to carry my cased drums away from the heavy stuff down below. The long side shelf held stands and lights and like the other poster, I also hung trussed lights from the roof bows on the opposite /door side. Get your trailer tires BALANCED, they don't come that way. Get a spare and make sure you have the right wrench for the trailer. Get the spare with the trailer, you won't save much by shopping around, plus it will match the mounted ones and you'll have it from day one. As you can tell, I don't have much to say about trailers ;>) Boomerweps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 My open ocean large ship sailoring came in handy cause that's the way it stopped. Boomerweps Yeah, but you can't shoot your way out of trouble when piloting your trailer Are your turn signals market port and starboard? Parking brake have a picture of an anchor on it? just checkin' :poke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rhat Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 backing up a trailer is a learned skill. every truck and trailer combo is a little different. In time you will learn to put the thing right where you want it. Use your mirrors and spot a guy out back who knows how to direct. Use simple signals ,, point right , point left , the keep on comming signal and the palm up to stop. Keep these signals totally consistant ,,,, nothing is worse than what I call the waver ,,,, they wave their hand around and you cant tell what the hell they want you do to. You get one of those idiots trying to direct you back to hitch up and its a total goat rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 Long trailers are both easier and harder to back up. Ona long trailer, there's more rear overhang so the rear will swing or sweem more as the turn is beig made. This is true on forward turns as well, turn left and the rear of the trailer bumps right a bit. Not good in very tight spaces. Longer trailers turn more slowly and in a smoother arc, but a shorter trailer is more menuverable. I prefer a shorter trailer but with a slightly longer tounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 I prefer a shorter trailer but with a slightly longer tounge. You are a potty mouth Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 4, 2010 Members Share Posted March 4, 2010 You are a potty mouth Andy! Never thought of it quite that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Get a twuck with a lift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 So in my research I find that almost all 6x12 trailers without brakes are rated @ 2990lbs regardless of brand but they all seem to have the 3500lb axle. Anything over 3000lbs needs to have brakes in most states. So load wise we should be safe up to 3500 but your stopping power is compromised without trailer brakes. The trailer manufactuers rate @ 2990 to avoid the brake issue so they can offer the 6x12 at a lower price point which seperates it from the dual axle 6x12's and larger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 Maybe the frame of the trailer makes up the difference in weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 1960LesPaul Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 No I believe the gross total weight of trailer and load should be 2990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinnem Posted March 5, 2010 Members Share Posted March 5, 2010 OSHA? Not only is this the name of my dog (before I realised it was SUPOSED to be spelt Osa), I think the poseter ment OHSA -- occupationial health and saftey act. THogh I was not aware trailer could be certified unter this act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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