Few questions regarding powered speakers.

[dk123123dk]

Why do manufactures offer 3 way speakers? Wouldn't you still need a sub to optimize the sound? And wouldn't this make the low driver in the mains redundant?

 

Would it make more sense to go with a pair or 2 way tops and subs, or a pair of 3way tops with subs?

 

Also would it be better to run 15" tops with 18" subs, or 12" tops? I would think the 12" speakers would produce the vocals a bit more clearly than the 15" speakers?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

dk

[agedhorse]

3 way speakers offer some benefits to some applications. Not to all users and all applications. You would still need subs (for most music), the low driver on the 3 way cabinets would not overlap the sub driver, typically it would start around 100Hz on up.

 

Generally I like 12" or 10" tops with subs because I don't need the LF response of (typical) 15's and I also prefer the size weight advantage ofa smaller top box.

[B. Adams]

Most 3 way speakers have a horn for the mid driver, which helps with directionality, throw, and vocal clarity. Most high frequency drivers are crossed over on the bottom at around 2.5k, which is right in the middle of the vocal range. Having a mid driver dedicated to that frequency range can make a big difference, but there are a lot of great sounding 2-way boxes out there.

 

The low driver isn't intended to take the place of a sub, it's for low mids, to fill in the space between the sub and the (small) mid driver. Don't listen to marketing that says otherwise.

 

There are many people who think that 12's are better for vocal projection, but it really depends on driver/cabinet design and how it's EQ'd and crossed over. The biggest variable however is the guy behind the mixer.

 

I'll take a good 3-way box any day instead of a 2-way. Unless size is a consideration or I have to lift it by myself, then I might think twice.

[agedhorse]

I would say that most cone mid sections (except in high output pro boxes) in 3 way cabinets (suitable for folks using this forum) do not use real horn loading. One I know of uses one for cosmetics though.

[abzurd]

If you're looking at cheap 3 ways, I'd suggest spending the money on a 2 way box as you'll get a better 2 way with your money then stretching the same cash into a 3 way. This is also advice I give to all those out there looking at cheap double 15 cabinets.

 

Expanding on what B. Adams said, you'll also find that a lot of the better 2 way boxes, ones with compression driver exit diameters larger than 1", hve a better sounding vocal range due to the crossover being around 1200 Hz versus the 1800-2500 Hz of typical 1" exit boxes (although there are some pretty nice 1" exit boxes out there too).

[RoadRanger]

Generally I like 12" or 10" tops with subs because I don't need the LF response of (typical) 15's and I also prefer the size weight advantage ofa smaller top box.

Just curious what 10" tops you've used and liked? I prefer the sound of 10's (or even 8's) but they tend to be less efficient and have lower power ratings than 12's.

[agedhorse]

 

Just curious what 10" tops you've used and liked? I prefer the sound of 10's (or even 8's) but they tend to be less efficient and have lower power ratings than 12's.

 

 

I built a 10" flyable speaker for myself (about 50 of them) using a custom Eminence driver about 15 years ago, they pack quite a punch in a small format box. Used something similar to the JBL 2425 for the top end on a fairly shallow CD horn flair. Can't get the parts anymore though, still have 24 of these boxes. It's a real pro box though, probably would have streeted for $700 each back then, hardly retail-worthy at that price.

 

I also built a pretty large number of 2-10" + 1.5" flyable line array cabinets, this was a proof of concept system that with the hit of the recession did not go forward. I bought everything for the cost of the components and I got paid for the design work I had into them, even so they were still expensive, Used custom Eminence and RCF Neo components in all baltic birch epoxy covered boxes. Very potent stuff. Light too.

 

I also like the QSC K-10's, EAW JF100, JFL-210, etc. It's all about using the right components in the right boxes and enough of it.

[oldschooler]

Don't forget the KV2 EX 10. It packs a compact punch for around $1500 a box.

[1tribe]

Has anyone listened to the JTR Triple 8?

 

 

 

Sorry, just caught that the OP is asking about powered speakers.

[agedhorse]

 

Don't forget the KV2 EX 10. It packs a compact punch for around $1500 a box.

 

 

Yes, another great choice.

[RoadRanger]

Has anyone listened to the JTR Triple 8?

I was just looking that up actually . They'd kinda look like a couple Fishman's:

there not nearly as skinny as those but pole mounted about a coupla subs they sure would be funny lookin' . I actually couldn't confirm that they even have pole cups?:

[oldschooler]

[quote=RoadRanger;39586831

there not nearly as skinny as those but pole mounted about a coupla subs they sure would be funny lookin' . I actually couldn't confirm that they even have pole cups?:

 

According to this thread, they do have pole cups.

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/48386/0/0/6751/

[dk123123dk]

I don't understand why many manufactures offer more 15" mains tha 10 and 12" mains?

 

I played a small gig where the house PA consisted of Peavey PR10's for the mains. I have a pair of PR15's and I thought the 10" speakers sounded better.

 

Often times the smaller speakers are cheaper than the 15" models as well. I wonder why this is?

 

 

dk

[agedhorse]

Big sells to bottom feeders better

[RoadRanger]

I played a small gig where the house PA consisted of Peavey PR10's for the mains. I have a pair of PR15's and I thought the 10" speakers sounded better.

I have some PR10's and they really do sound fine when properly EQ'd. I'm pretty sure they don't have CDhorn EQ built into the internal crossovers so you have to account for that in the external EQ . I run them over a pair of small 1x15 subs and they keep up fine powered at 300w each even with 1500w total into the subs. That system fit in my Geo Metro .

[GCDEF]

 

I don't understand why many manufactures offer more 15" mains tha 10 and 12" mains? I played a small gig where the house PA consisted of Peavey PR10's for the mains. I have a pair of PR15's and I thought the 10" speakers sounded better. Often times the smaller speakers are cheaper than the 15" models as well. I wonder why this is? dk

 

 

Small bands want to look like big bands. It's the same reason people by cheap solid state half stacks when a small tube combo would cost the same and sound a whole lot better.

[dk123123dk]

I guess bigger seems better. Thats probably why all those DJ's have those huge dual 15" cabs. I'd rather carry less stuff. I hate the looks you get when you are bringing it all sorts of huge speakers into a small venue. The people see the big amps and assume its going to be super loud, even if its not.

 

Thanks to everyone who posted.

 

dk

[RoadRanger]

I guess bigger seems better. Thats probably why all those DJ's have those huge dual 15" cabs. I'd rather carry less stuff. I hate the looks you get when you are bringing it all sorts of huge speakers into a small venue. The people see the big amps and assume its going to be super loud, even if its not.

Actually I get the opposite - people see a couple PR10's up on stands with the little subs tucked off to one side and figure it can't be "Rock & Roll" enough for them .

[stunningbabe]

No matter what...it is always good to have MORE ammo than not enough.

[RoadRanger]

No matter what...it is always good to have MORE ammo than not enough.

True - as long as somebody is willing to pay for it and its transport and there's space for it. I'd dispute the "No matter what" for sure!

[monthlymixcd]

Actually I get the opposite - people see a couple PR10's up on stands with the little subs tucked off to one side and figure it can't be "Rock & Roll" enough for them .

 

I like my rig to be as much of "a sleeper" as I can make it... if it sounds good people will stop listening with their eyes and just enjoy the show. Conversely, if a rig sounds bad... I think people begin listening more with their eyes trying to figure out what part of it sucks.

 

There are tons of "old skool" bands around here still riding piles of mismatch JBL/Peavey/Carvin/whatever stuff from the 70's and 80's that they need a straight truck to haul. It might sound just as good as it did "back in the day" but that's a lot of sore backs over time. I suppose it's not a big deal when you're also schlepping Leslies, etc.

 

I'd much rather do the Neil Young giant amp facade thing over an efficient and lightweight SoS setup if I'm going to be required to look big.