Rare amp replacement, help needed!

[PubMonkey]

Hi Everyone, I have a slightly unusual amp which may be dying, and I'm not sure if a direct replacement is even possible. I would appreciate some advice on options, I haven't bought new gear in years so my product knowledge is totally out of date!

For the last few years I've been using a Line 6 Spider Valve Mk II combo, it's been perfect for what I do but it's starting to become unreliable. Prior to this I used Marshall and Mesa half stacks, with pedals and rack gear for effects and MIDI switching to control everything, but I got fed up lugging around half a tonne of equipment to play relatively small venues. In my head, a valve modelling amp meant having valve tone plus built-in digital effects and a floorboard to control presets, which is perfect for me. It seems nobody now makes a valve modelling amp, which would make replacement nearly impossible, but now I'm wondering if I've misunderstood the Spider Valve all together...

I often use high gain distortion, I loved the sound of my old Mesa rig so wanted a valve distortion tone, plus the convenience of effects/presets on a single floorboard. I thought the spider valve was doing that, but now I'm thinking was it infact a single channel clean valve amp, and all the distortion was digital?

I suppose the questions are:

1. Are there any true valve amps which also provide modelling/effects/presets?

2. If not, what is the easiest way to acheive this? Do I need to go back to a multi-channel valve amp plus an effects/switching unit?

3. Is it worth putting something like a Helix or Firehawk through a single channel valve combo to try and recreate what the spider valve was doing? If the distortion is digital, does a valve amp make much difference?

Any help would be much appreciated. I'm feeling very out of touch with equipment so would appreciate some advice from anyone with more up-to-date knoweldge of the gear market.

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[Grant Harding]

The answer to all of your questions is a Kemper power head, but the price is high. It's not tubes, but it's as close as you can get and will be much closer than the Spider. 

Also check out the latest Line 6 stuff there's surely a current equivalent of your amp. 

[daddymack]

^ that is certainly one possible solution...a very pricey and complicated [steep learning curve] solution, as well...

A few questions and some clarifications...

Questions: you have the 100 watt head version, yes?

You say it is 'unreliable', but in what respect?

Have you replaced the tubes...ever?

Have you had a professional amp tech look it over?

Have you looked to see if there are any used heads where you are?  They are, as I'm sure you are well aware, no longer made; however, if you do a search, [i'm assuming you are not in the USA] there are a number of them for sale here in the US fairly cheaply [many under $300 US]. You may find some out there that are still working.

Clarifications:

the valves/tubes in a Spider Valve MK II amp by Line 6 are based on a Bogner design.  2x 12AX7 and 4x 6L6 tubes.

The amp was designed as a 'clean headroom' platform for the digital models. There are [iIRC] 10-12 'preset' amp models which will access the gain stages of the tubes to a certain degree.

Have you looked at the Line 6 DT25 amps? These are all tube[valve] amps also Bogner designed.

[WRGKMC]

Line 6 has many newer amps out you may want to look at. 

Companies like Vox, Marshall, Peavey and others make decent modeling amps if that's what you want.  You may be better off taking your guitar to a music store and trying out some of the newer gear out there is you are unfamiliar which how they sound.  Everybody develops their own personal preferences based on what they have available to them.  Even if I owned a music store and knew what all the new amps sound like I wouldn't be able to judge what's good for you without hearing you play live first.  Even then, my taste in tone may not be yours so any advice I give you would be biased towards my taste in music not yours. 

Depending on the situation, Tubes may not be the best option for you.  Tube amps, especially if they are vintage are typically a one trick pony. You may are lucky to get one setting that good for rhythm and one for lead.  Once you start putting solid state pedals in front of them you defeat the reason for having a tube amp and may simply be better off using a much more versatile SS amp. 

Some amps contain Tubes in their preamp and have SS power amps or have SS preamps and Tube power amps.  This gives you the options of both. 

I bought a Vox amp 3 months ago which has amp modeling.  It uses a Tube in the power amp section to emulate the different kinds of popular Class A and AB guitar amps. Then it uses a SS power amp to boost that actual tube tone up to loud levels.  I been using it non stop since I bought it and it really does a decent job emulating drive tube amps when you add just the right amount of drive.  Its opened up many tones I used to only be able to get using those actual amps. 

Like I said, you really need to try them for yourself to know what might be best for you otherwise you're simply rolling the dice and buying blind. 

 

[PubMonkey]

Thanks for the replies, that makes things a bit clearer!

I've read up on a lot of amps, and whilst tone is of course important, I'm actually more worried about replacing the switching capability of my old amp. I'm used to being able to hit one button to change presets, including amp channels/models and effects, as I'm often on front vocals so I can't afford to tap dance across multiple pedals and amp footswitches each time. I've been spoilt with the Spider Valve which lets me do this one-button preset switching, although still with an all-tube Bogner-designed amp. So frustrating that no-one seems to offer this flexibility in a tube amp!

To answer the questions above, I have the 40W 212 combo but have never taken the volume past 4, so would happily downsize to a 112. The amp has been re-valved once in about 8 years (played on average for one 2-hour show per week) but the reliability issues come more from the digital side. The amp has developed a bad habit of switching amp models without warning, and sometimes the floorboard freezes. I also used to get bad feedback if the amp was backed up too close to a wall, but I'm hoping this will be cured by the next re-valve and I've learnt to keep it 12 inches away from the wall to avoid this!

The DT25 looks promising, although I'd need a separate unit for effects which could also switch the amp channels, I think the HD500X could do this with the "L6 Link" but it looks like the HD5000X has been discontinued, as most places here (UK) have stopped selling it. The Firehawk looks to offer presets with good amp models and effects but can't switch the channels of a real amp, so I could potentially run that in to a single channel tube amp for a "clean headroom platform", like the Spider Valve did.

I think it will be a choice between sacrificing tube tone for all the flexibility of a SS modelling amp, or using a floorboard for amp models & effects and running it through a simple tube amp. Are there any benefits to either option?

Thanks guys.

[1001gear]

Could be firmware. You should start at line6 see what's up.

[Grant Harding]

For the record the Kemper sounds more like a tube amp than the Spider Valve and can do virtually anything you could want. It's not a "SS modeling amp".

Just for fun you should find one and try it out at stage levels.

[Phil O'Keefe]

On 3/8/2020 at 9:30 AM, PubMonkey said:

1. Are there any true valve amps which also provide modelling/effects/presets?

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Fender Super Champ X2. It is a 1x10 combo amp that uses a pair of 6V6 output tubes along with a single 12AX7 preamp tube, and is rated at 15W RMS. It's a lot smaller than what you've been using. 

It has 16 different amp voice type models, along with 15 different effects types. No presets though, and I'm not sure if it's available outside of the USA. 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SupChampX2--fender-super-champ-x2-15-watt-1x10-inch-tube-combo-amp

https://shop.fender.com/en-US/guitar-amplifiers/contemporary-digital/super-champ-x2/2223000000.html

 

 

[WRGKMC]

The guitar player from my old band used a peavey Classic 50 Twin for years.  Got great sounds from it while the tubes were new.  He used a pedal board for the effects. 

If you wanted the classic Tube tone and didn't want to mess with so many pedals the best option is a good multi effect pedal, preferably one of the newer ones that have amp modeling too. 

He eventually sold that one and got a Line 6 Spider Jam 75W.  I've only played with him the one time but it made his playing sound much better.  he isn't a big one for tweaking tone.  He's pretty much a set and forget type player.  The model does have 200 presets, 36 user and 12 amp models. You can dial up some really good sounds with that especially if you aren't trying to use an underpowered amp and pushing it to the limit.  As a rule of thumb, you typically want a SS amp that's twice as loud as whatever tube amp you're trying to match so you can run it at half volume.  This produces less noise and the amp and speaker typically last longer then pushing a small amp to its limits. 

If it were 20 years ago I'd tell most people to stick with tube for the best tone, but several of these newer modeling amps are hard to beat not only because they sound good, but they are so versatile.  Especially playing cover music where each songs guitarist uses a completely different rig. 

Line 6 has downloadable patches which can make life a lot easier too.  Especially if you haven't got an ideal studio where you can play along to recordings and find those ideal tones.  Trying to set up a really big sound in a very small bedroom or apartment can be dam near impossible.  let someone else do that work then just customize it to your needs. 

I played with another guy who used a 120W Head, 4X12 cab and entire floor board to match it.  He got some amazing sounds both live and recording. The only thing I didn't like about it is it only had one speaker jack for one cab.  If you wanted to run 2 cabs they had to be wired to match the right impedance.  The head had no line out or effects loop either so running a slave head wasn't going to work so hot.  If you wanted to run another cab you needed another head too and split the inputs which means the second amp wouldn't be able to share the line 6 effects. 

The Marshall I use live is only a valve state but its got all the extra connectors. Loop parallel and series, line out and a speaker emulated out which works perfectly recording plus its impedance is variable from 4 to 16 so extra cabs aren't an issue.  I was going to trade it out and try one of those Marshall Code amps.  I really like the quality of Marshall effects pedals and having those plus amp modeling would be really nice. I just hate giving up that 1960 cab.  Its got 4 cream backs in there which sound wonderful with any head.

As far as Hybrids go, I'm not a huge fan.  A Tube in the preamp section doesn't don mush running on low voltage.  Running power tubes with a SS front end isn't allot better.  It sounds big but the SS drive is a bit sterile sounding.  My Music man has that combination as do other like a Peavey Trans Tube.  SS and Tubes don't usually work very well. Tubes get hot and Transistors need to be kept cool as possible.   I do like that Vox though. Korg really knows their electronics.  Its channels are limited to 2 plus the bypassed channel which makes three but that's all I typically need playing live or recording. A good clean tube tone with a little grunt when I dig in, a singing violin type lead with chorus and echo, and something in between where I can go from clean to crunch.  My buddy has a 100W stereo setup and the tall 4X12 cab and its tilt rack.  He has the matching floor board for that one too and can get anything he deeds with it.  I'd need to use the truck to move that one.  I can fit the 50W 1X12 Vox combo in my Mustang trunk standing upright and get the trunk closed.  Size matters when you move that stuff around all the time. 

[PubMonkey]

Thanks for the replies, that gives me more to consider. I'll get to a music shop to try some stuff out, now I'm clearer on the options. Thanks guys!