Vehicle Advice For First Tour

[Gordon Sound]

My buddy built storage area with the bed on top. That way when you looked in side all you saw was a bed but when you opened the back door and could get the gear out. i think a trailer Is a pain in the ass. for 3 guys and as little gear as you have a van should be fine unless you go hog wild with the merch or drag along a PA. I would reccomend A lower milage vehicle though something under 50K even if you had to go to a passenger van. Good thing is right now dealer ships are selling them pretty cheap right now I pay about $150 a month for a extended van. 3 guys took it to vegas for a conferance gig w/ 1 rear seat and gear. It wasnt unpleasant 1 guy could easily sleep on the rear bench seat.- granted nobody was taller than 5ft 11"
Of course i am the only guy who hates trailers.

[Mikoo69]

has anyone used a conversion van to tour?

[Mikoo69]

just got back from looking at vans in person. the best bet is a 15 passenger van with the back 2 rows of seats taken out which will give us plenty of room for our gear, clothes, supplies etc. then 2 people can sleep on benches. eventually we can get a trailer so that all 3 of us can sleep.

for e-350s seem to be the best, though im open to other recommendations.

also i have heard of people building lofts in the back so that the gear can stay hidden and one more person can sleep up there. anyone have any pictures of this?

[Mikoo69]

okay, this might be the one assuming our gear fits in the cargo space (waiting on measurements from the owner)

 

http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/1793167983.html

 

more pictures here:

http://s616.photobucket.com/home/vitalikeuro/index

 

the plan would be to panel out the back windows and get a good lock that cant be cut to prevent gear theft. then in the interior, we could remove the middle 2 bucket seats so that we can have 2 people sleep on the fold down bed in the back and one person on the floor.

 

now my only oncern is the 182,000 miles. any opinions on this? love the sprinter idea as it apparently gets much better gas mileage than the ford econoline.

[RoadRanger]

You can find the Ford Econoline with a diesel also. About 20mpg for either?

[Mogwix]

http://rochester.craigslist.org/cto/1793167983.html

 

Hah, that's pretty freakin' neat.

[Mikoo69]

would be perfect but im worried we are going to drive it 20,000 miles and then need to replace the engine for $11,000 or however much those mercedes engines inside of them cost.

[monthlymixcd]

Despite the mileage that's a great deal. I was going to suggest a Sprinter but the likelihood of finding one in your price range was going to be remote. If it's had regular maintenance it'll probably go another 50K miles.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

Despite the mileage that's a great deal. I was going to suggest a Sprinter but the likelihood of finding one in your price range was going to be remote. If it's had regular maintenance it'll probably go another 50K miles.

 

 

The fact that it's in his price range is what worries me.

[RoadRanger]

The fact that it's in his price range is what worries me.

If it was used for expedited freight (they are very popular for that) most all carriers dump them when they turn 5 years old (AKA run out of warranty). I bought my Freightliner road tractor for ~ 1/15 of its new cost because it was over 5 years old and useless to major carriers. Anybody want a good 11.1 liter motor that weighs 2000 lbs?

[Craig Vecchione]

If it was used for expedited freight (they are very popular for that) most all carriers dump them when they turn 5 years old (AKA run out of warranty). I bought my Freightliner road tractor for ~ 1/15 of its new cost because it was over 5 years old and useless to major carriers. Anybody want a good 11.1 liter motor that weighs 2000 lbs?

 

My point was that nobody sells anything for less than it's worth. I didn't look up book value on it, but if it's actually below value, there's a reason.

 

Additionally, age isn't as important as mileage, and when age is important the fleet is more likely to be leased than purchased.

[agedhorse]

In today's economy, prices have fallen due to supply and demand.

[Ryan.]

In today's economy, prices have fallen due to supply and demand.

Tell me about it. I got a great deal a while back on my Suburban, bought for 16k at an auction. Then gas prices went to 4.50/gallon and the economy tanked and now its worth 11k 2 years later.

I just rationalize the fact that I need it. It tows the boat, and moves my gear, so I don't care what its worth...

[Gordon Sound]

I would avoid anything like the panneled or LV "pimpmobile"

[Mikoo69]

okay i am being told that in order to use the Ford E-350 we need commercial auto insurance which is much more expensive than personal car insurance.

 

can someone confirm or deny this?

 

also in light of that, the new ford transit connect can use personal and i might be able to afford a new one with financing. what are all your opinions of the transit connect (with one rear bench 4-5 passenger seating)

 

http://www.fordvehicles.com/transitconnect/

[W. M. Hellinger]

okay i am being told that in order to use the Ford E-350 we need commercial auto insurance which is much more expensive than personal car insurance. can someone confirm or deny this?

It could be that in your state there's some GVW threshold that puts a vehicle in a commercial class... but if an E-350 is a commercial class vehicle, then most RV's would probably qualify as commercial vehicles ( ).

In the state I live, a vehicle's application more-so dictates the insurance requirements... and any vehicle used for commercial purposes (like hauling around musicians and their gear on a tour) qualifies as a commercial application, thus requiring commercial insurance on the vehicle.

This sort of thing is one of a host of problems associated with a dual use commercial/personal vehicle... since if you use the vehicle in a business related activity, then chances are the vehicle will be classed as commercial (regardless of what it is) and you're MOL stuck paying commercial rates for every mile put on the vehicle. If you're traveling interstate with the vehicle, it even gets more complicated (and expensive). Depending on which states you travel through, the driver of the vehicle might be required to carry a commercial driver's license, and an up-to-date medical card, and possibly a commercial log book, and possibly register with the DOT and pay IFTA fuel tax, etc... And... as I understand it, some states (possibly all) have a zero (0.00) % BAC threshold if you're carrying a commercial driver's license, regardless of whether you're driving commercially or not. That means not even so-much as a beer within 24 hours before getting behind the wheel... any wheel. And, if you're fixin to claim the touring milage as a deduction, the IRS could take a special interest in this since they get fairly technical about what qualifies as deductable milage when blending personal use and business use of a vehicle.

Oh, and I believe my father-in-law had an E-350... for hauling around his family (big family). After a good portion of the kids were grown & gone, he gave his E-350 to one of his kids, who was getting a good start on rearing a herd of their own. I'm fairly certain that van's never had commercial plates or commercial insurance on it... didn't need it... wasn't ever used for commercial purposes... just hauled kids and groceries. Of-course vehicle classification laws might be different in your location.

[Mikoo69]

why does it seem so complicated to get a van to take a band around to play some shows???

in brooklyn last night there was the northside fest, lots of bands from around town out of state, etc. everyone had an e-350. most of them looked beat up as hell, prob early 90s, covered in paint, cosmetically awful.

how do they afford it or make it happen? i am perplexed. seems like most of their vehicles probably cost under $3000. but insurance? i cant imagine half of those bands affording commercial insurance and all that...

[RoadRanger]

In some states a cargo van needs commercial plates whereas the same exact van with side windows does not . If the GVWR is the issue look for a e250. Even an e150 would be enough for what you're looking to haul with it.

[W. M. Hellinger]

why does it seem so complicated to get a van to take a band around to play some shows??? in brooklyn last night there was the northside fest, lots of bands from around town out of state, etc. everyone had an e-350. most of them looked beat up as hell, prob early 90s, covered in paint, cosmetically awful. how do they afford it or make it happen? i am perplexed. seems like most of their vehicles probably cost under $3000. but insurance? i cant imagine half of those bands affording commercial insurance and all that...

 

 

So... I just got the check from selling my '94 E-450 Club Wagon (15 passenger van with wheelchair lift) at auction. It went for $1,500. I have absolute confidence that van will run for 100K miles with zero maintenance beyond changing the tires innabout 50 - 60,000 miles... and change the engine oil every 5K miles. I also have no doubt in my mind that van will run for another 250K - 400K miles with reasonable preventative maintenance. I suggest that is one example of the market value for these sorts of vehicles. I'll suggest that something 10 years newer could easily cost 10 times the money, but might not be in any better functional condition.

 

I suspect most of those bands are currently flying under the radar (and collectively they're apportioning gig income between gas money, cigs, guitar strings, and hot wings)... and that the band will fall apart shortly after the first substantial monetary reality check.

 

I'll suggest that a mid '90's Club Wagon sourced out of your area (where barge tonnage road salt isn't a primary means for dealing with snow), that could be your most cost effective option if you abandon the idea of somehow capitalizing on using the business vehicle for personal purposes.

[W. M. Hellinger]

In some states a cargo van needs commercial plates whereas the same exact van with side windows does not . If the GVWR is the issue look for a e250. Even an e150 would be enough for what you're looking to haul with it.

In some states, I believe a conversion van, with a sink, refrigerator, and maybe a bed sort of thing... that passes as an RV... and is exempt from commercial vehicle status regardless of it's GVW... even if it's a 50,000 lb. curb weight 45ft. long motorhome with air brakes pulling a 20ft. trailer... unless of-course it's used for some commerace related activity.

[agedhorse]

I have a little Scion Xb that I use for a service vehicle. I paid a little more for commercial plates (allows use of loading zones and other commercial vehicle necessities) as well as commercial insurance (again, not all that much more) because IF something terrible was to happen, I want to be sure I'm flying straight.

[W. M. Hellinger]

I have a little Scion Xb that I use for a service vehicle. I paid a little more for commercial plates (allows use of loading zones and other commercial vehicle necessities) as well as commercial insurance (again, not all that much more) because IF something terrible was to happen, I want to be sure I'm flying straight.

 

Like getting pulled over for a dirty license plate light (like what's happened to me on numerous occasions), and some cop starts asking stupid question about all the stuff in the back (like what's happened to me on numerous occasions)... and you inadvertently hand him your business card instead of your driver's license first?

 

And you then find out the cost of post apprehension forced compliance is calculated to be a deturrent to flying under the radar?

 

Something like that? And you then realize that any job worth doing at-all is worth doing right, within some reasonable excellency vs. adequacy business model... and you also realize (during the long drive home) that any job not worth doing right might not be worth doing at-all... while you ask yourself what the hell am I doing?

[RoadRanger]

In some states, I believe a conversion van, with a sink, refrigerator, and maybe a bed sort of thing... that passes as an RV... and is exempt from commercial vehicle status regardless of it's GVW... even if it's a 50,000 lb. curb weight 45ft. long motorhome with air brakes pulling a 20ft. trailer... unless of-course it's used for some commerace related activity.

Yah, I'm tempted to try to register my road tractor as an RV :

[W. M. Hellinger]

Oh, and I suggest that:

Band transportation is possibly one of the first reality checks with the business model... because: transportation on pulic highways is regulated by the DOT... they make up the rules... as opposed to other aspects with bands where there's commonly little if any adult supervision and reality checks imposed until something becomes apparent it isn't working out... and hasn't been working out as long as the money held out.

IOW: Do not buy a band vehicle on credit unless the band has a comprehensive business plan. Let me rephrase that: Don't personally buy a band vehicle on credit unless the band has a comprehensive business plan... but if somebody else in the band comes up with the idea to fix the band up with a vehicle to go out on tour with... and they're fixing to co-use said vehicle for personal use, and you'll only be chipping in for gas when out on tour, then just say: "Good idea boss".

[Mikoo69]

transit connect as a tour vehicle?