Vehicle Advice For First Tour

[monkeyland]

 

a friends band travels with a trailer and says its a huge headache. tolls are more expensive, they cant bring it into most cities and need to leave it parked in a random lot outside of the city. i just figured since we are a 3 piece with less equipment we can do it without a trailer. well bring our equipment inside wherever we are sleeping to prevent it from being stolen.

 

 

if "most cities" equals new york then that may be true. but actually you can bring a trailer there too. you just have to use the right bridge or tunnel. can't remember which as it's been a few years. the only real problem is parking but if you are crafty it can be done relatively easily.

 

a trailer really is the best way as it allows you to keep all of your stuff out of the vehicle. and always factor in extra space. you may end up with different gear in the future...or maybe end up carrying a bunch of merch bins full of tshirts and records and need the extra space. it sounds like you could do well with a simple 4x8 trailer though.

[markisloud]

We toured Canada a few times with a Chevy Astro AWD and a 4X8 trailer as a five piece (sometimes cramming a 6th person)

 

It wasn`t the most comfortable with 5-6 people, but it would be a fantastic tour vehicle with a 3 piece. You honestly could do all 3 of you and the gear you stated with just one of the bench seats in, and it would pull a small trailer as well if you wanted the seats in if you start carrying more people (tour manager, sound guy etc)

 

But if you have some tall guys in the band, driving is really awkward, as you sit almost on-top of the engine. And its a bit hard to work on, but not bad. We got ours used for $5000 CDN with 170,000 KM, so they are fairly affordable.

[Shaster]

 

I've looked into renting vans for personal reasons, band reasons, and for professional reasons (my day job). The rental agencies rape you. Renting a van is not at all like renting a passenger car. They charge a hefty fee plus a per mile fee. If you're traveling appreciable distances, it can be very expensive.

 

 

It can also depend on the size of your market and the rental company.

 

Way back when, after several years of using personal vehicles on tour, my band switched to rental vans. It did (usually) cost more, but the costs were fixed, quantifiable, and predictable.

 

A $1200.00 repair bill somewhere out on the road (coupled with subsequent loss of a gig) can make rental seem cheap.

 

Of course if someone in the band is handy, or a mechanic that changes everything. I once worked with a guy that left work early on a Friday, changed the rear end in his van, and then drove for an hour to the gig - and was early at that.

 

Sadly that does not describe my mechanical skills.

 

To the OP, check out rental rates in your area - it's good to know your options.

[W. M. Hellinger]

In re-reading the OP's posts, I'll agree, renting a touring vehicle (van, Suburban, etc...) could be a very good idea, at least to begin with, because:

 

1) The OP lives in NY state. I'm of the understanding good used vehicles are not abundant there... especially since the cash for clunkers program mulched many of the 5 - 10 yo. vehicles. BTW: Right now is a really lousy time in-general to buy a used vehicle as prices for good used vehicles have gone through the roof, partly due to the economy: lots of folks looking to save some money, not nearly as many buying new vehicles, many in the market for a good used vehicle, and the cash for clunkers removed a good chunk of cost effective used vehicles from the market.

 

2) The OP has approx. $12K to spend on a vehicle. I suspect sourcing locally, $12K won't buy much of a Suburban in NY state... probably be a bucket of rust plagued with reliability issues.

 

3) Who knows how the band touring thing will work out? Generally unsigned bands operate under a loose arrangement of assumed communal something or another... no real management, no real business plan, and certainly no binding commitments.

 

4) Any vehicle even remotely well suited for a 3 or 4 member band touring with instruments, backline equipment, stage attire, merchandise, and enough stuff to be on the road for a couple weeks at a time... such a tour suitable vehicle would probably be an expensive behemoth as a "daily driver". When the band's touring, I'd hope travel expenses are either equally shared, or the gross income goes into a general fund, from which the band's expenses and paychecks are drawn. The "daily driver" I'd think would be funded strictly by the owner/operator. I've found that with good used vehicles (where somebody else footed the bill to run the cream off the vehicle), the cost to own and operate said vehicle is roughly twice the fuel expense... being for every dollar poured in the gas tank, the vehicle will sooner or later require a matching dollar to own & maintain. Newer vehicles, the ratio can easily be 2 - 3 dollars in depreciation, license, insurance, wear & tear, etc... for every dollar poured in the fuel tank. If the band is "pitching in for gas" and that's it, chances are the owner of the band vehicle is footing 50% - 80%+ the actual operating expense of the vehicle... but oftentimes these additional expenses are deferred or buried in the cost of "daily driving" that vehicle. If the band rents a tour vehicle, then the cost of operating that vehicle during the tour is up-front and apparent to all involved.

 

5) It's anybody's guess what sort of vehicle could work out best for a band on tour. One way to find out is rent a variety of different vehicles over the period of a few tours... and if one type of vehicle stands out as "the best suited", and the band thing's working out, and the touring thing's working out, and it pencils out that the band owning a tour vehicle is the most cost effective, then consider buying.

 

6) I suggest to drive a well suited daily driver vehicle as your daily driver vehicle

[Special J]

I hate to bring this up again, but a Suburban, packed to the gills with equipment and no load control to speak of is a death trap waiting to happen. When you're doing long hauls, it's best to sleep in shifts so that there are always 2 of you awake - one driving and the other keeping the driver awake. Sorry to be Mr. Safety, I'd just hate to see ya get hurt.

 

I think markisloud's got a pretty good idea there. Astro with a trailer. I know you said no minivans, but an Astro isn't your average soccer mom wagon. And they make a decent daily driver. I've owned a few, and the company does too.

 

And the bit you said about hauling your stuff inside where you're sleeping - it will get old after the first time you do it, trust me. You've already loaded in and out once and played your ass off. The only thing you're going to want to do after your gig, is maybe get a little drink on (or whatever), get your dick wet if that's an option, and go to sleep...or...so I've been told.

[Mogwix]

I will attest that SUV's are awkward at best for a band vehicle. Large SUV's are OK I guess but the cost to own one is absolutely hideous. Any more than 4 people is uncomfortable, and even though they're huge, there really isn't a lot of cargo space.

 

 

And the bit you said about hauling your stuff inside where you're sleeping - it will get old after the first time you do it, trust me.

 

A huge +1 here. Anything you can do to make life easier on the road adds up night after night... touring wears on everybody. Save yourself as much work as possible; that means streamlining your load-in, setup, teardown, and load-out so that all are as simple, fast, and easy as possible. Making a hundred trips back and forth from the van to the stage every night will seriously wear you down.

 

Keep your van locked, in a well-lit area, where hopefully there's security cameras. It's a good idea to get all of your equipment insured by a third party and make sure that your insurance plan covers theft.

[Marko]

Or, you could just prematurely grow up and ditch the whole touring thing

[Mogwix]

Just a thought.

I think that every young musician should tour at least once... it's a learning experience... you learn not to do it again

[Marko]

I think that every young musician should tour at least once... it's a learning experience... you learn not to do it again

 

[Ryan.]

I own a suburban, and it gets around my four piece. I have a half stack, the bassist has 610s, and of course a full drum kit. We can fit all four of us in the truck with one seat folded down and all the gear.

[Mdsmithii]

After being on the road many times with a 15 passenger, loaded, and with a trailer, that seems to be the best option at this level. But i understand the dual purpose idea. So I would suggest a 2002 or newer ford explorer w/ trailer, or a astro van w/trailer or not. I would also suggest getting soft cases at least for the drums, what drummer wants to take the front head of the drum every show just to get the tom out and put it back on.

[WynnD]

Been using a Toyota Sienna for 11 years now. Got 3000 lb towing capacity and for club use, I fit the stuff I need inside. (Outdoors, I bring a lot more stuff.)

[Mikoo69]

okay:

 

screw the suburban idea, i think it's best to just get a passenger van.

 

can you guys start recommending me some good passenger vans i can compare. as i said budget to buy the van is about $12,000, and the band will be splitting gas.

 

i heard the best ones are without windows all along the back so that the gear can be hidden.

[WynnD]

Bought a Dodge 3/4 ton extended van. Three speed in the tree and a small block V8. Only had the front seats. Bought a bench seat at a junk yard and bolted it to the floor. Put in some tie straps for the Leslie and had a vehicle that sat 5 and had room for a typical 4 piece rock band's equipment. There were some teething problems. Cracked distributor cap was the hardest to spot, until we broke down in the dark. Don't think it ever got good milage, but generally we played near home.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

can you guys start recommending me some good passenger vans i can compare. as i said budget to buy the van is about $12,000, and the band will be splitting gas. i heard the best ones are without windows all along the back so that the gear can be hidden.

 

It depends. Are you going to be using the van as a daily driver, or will it be dedicated for touring?

 

I'd say if it's going to be your daily driver as well as the band's tour rig, and you're somehow stuck with putting up the purchase price money, and eating the depreciation, and paying the tax & insurance, and footing the bill to fix whatever breaks or wears out... and your band mates are just splitting the gas cost when out on tour... then I'd recommend getting absolutely the cheapest to own & operate van-like thing you can lay your hands on... Does anybody know, can a person legally own & operate a Toyota Hiace on US highways?

 

If the vehicle is going to be the dedicated band tour rig... and when it's not out on a tour, it's parked... then I suggest a high-top Ford E450 clubwagon... purchased used at a municipal auction.

[blkmonday]

used full size dodge conversion vans can be had cheap with low miles. as they are not highly desired..its easy to rip out the back bed/seat and the back captains chairs come out and go back in easlly enough as needed. ive had mine for about 3 years and love it.

 

used astro vans are awesome as well...but not cheap as they are highly desired as work vans. they carry more cargo as they arent exactly a mini van..they fall somewhere in between. the all wheel drive option is nice to have..i live in ct and my old astro got me home from many shows in near blizzard conditions safely..i wouldnt even consider leaving the house in my dodge (i cram it all in my blazer if the weathers bad and my show isnt cancelled...sans subs).

 

from experience (and im a auto mechanic..and have worked a lot on both of these vehicles) give both of these vans a look

[Mikoo69]

i see a lot of bands in NYC pull up in Ford E-350s. Those good?

 

This will be my daily driver as well, though I am going to try and minimize the amount of driving i do in it daily.

[blkmonday]

yea they are good..but not cheap. those are the heavy duty ford vans with the heavy duty suspension..made for work. not the most comfortable ride for a daily driver

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

i see a lot of bands in NYC pull up in Ford E-350s. Those good? This will be my daily driver as well, though I am going to try and minimize the amount of driving i do in it daily.

 

What I've been trying to relate to you from the get-go is that there is no "good" band tour vehicle that will double as a "good" daily driver... unless your daily driving needs involve hauling around a vehicle full of people and band equipment. A Ford E-350 clubwagon is a behemoth as a daily driver, but would be "ok" as a band tour van... better if it's a high-top version. Figure 12 - 14 mpg down the highway, and somewhere south of 10 mpg around town.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

yea they are good..but not cheap. those are the heavy duty ford vans with the heavy duty suspension..made for work. not the most comfortable ride for a daily driver

 

I owned the E-450 version, which is the heavy duty Ford version, with the heavy duty (1 ton) suspension. Compared to my Tahoe, the E-450 rode like a creampuff.

 

BTW: I recently sold my '95 high-top E-450 clubwagon at an unreserved used vehicle auction. In my estimation, that vehicle was in near mint condition when I sent it to auction: 100K miles, absolutely no rust (garage kept most of it's life), recent FULL tune-up, NEW transmission and NEW rearend ($4K there), NEW Goodyear 10ply tires, NEW brakes, drums, & rotors, NEW fuel pump, NEW shocks, all new belts & hoses, fully loaded with all options and everything worked, perfect glass and near perfect paint, perfect interior, full maintanance records dating to delivery from the factory, motor compression tested within factory new specifications. I don't know what it sold for at auction, I haven't gotten the check yet, but I took it to the auction because I couldn't sell it locally... no interest what-so-ever at $2K asking price... heavily advertised locally for about a year.

 

I don't know what the reserve is on this van, but if it goes for

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-Limousine-2007-E250-Extended-DaBryan-Limousine-Van-45K-Mi-1Owner-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563d77674aQQitemZ370398422858QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

[madjack]

 

okay: screw the suburban idea, i think it's best to just get a passenger van. can you guys start recommending me some good passenger vans i can compare. as i said budget to buy the van is about $12,000, and the band will be splitting gas. i heard the best ones are without windows all along the back so that the gear can be hidden.

 

 

I've used something like this for touring several times. Put a cage right in front of the rear wheel wells for safety, and install a wide rear seat in front of that so at least one can sleep on the road.

[Zeromus-X]

 

I don't know what the reserve is on this van, but if it goes for http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-E-Series-Van-Limousine-2007-E250-Extended-DaBryan-Limousine-Van-45K-Mi-1Owner-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem563d77674aQQitemZ370398422858QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

 

 

Oh man... that'd be fun as hell. If the tour started making any decent money, hiring someone to drive it would make it even better.

 

I know you've said your budget is about $12,000, and you're looking for dual purpose, but what about getting two vehicles? I don't know how the price of things is up where you're at, but I know down here, for about $2k you can get a fairly-reliable (as in, you might need to put a little work into it) commuter vehicle, which would give you $10k to spend on a band vehicle. Depending on the luxury you're accustomed to, it might work out better. Only downside is two insurance payments, two registration fees, etc. Even still, I'm guessing it would come out cheaper. I've got a 2003 Pontiac Vibe that I use for my daily commuting and personal gear-hauler, and I'll be selling it this year and expecting to get about $3,000 for it when I do. It gets about 26 miles per gallon, rides well, won't carry a band full of equipment (unless there's no PA involved), doesn't have much sleeping room for a 3-piece with gear... but surely is a hell of a lot cheaper to drive to work every day than a limo van would be.

 

I'm also going to agree with the "band buys the band vehicle" idea, too. Regardless of whether we needed one, I'd never buy a band van under my name. "Pitching in for gas" is nothing in relation to the overall costs of owning a vehicle, and I'd hope you'd be aware of that. If the band is serious, go get a business license for the band (it doesn't cost but a few bucks) and purchase a "company vehicle". Take your gig money at each show and put it in a "company account". Write each band member a paycheck out of that account. Let the rest of it accrue. When you need gas, oil changes, tires, coolant, re-registration, insurance payments, a tow truck, a new windshield, or any of a million other things, it comes out of the company (band) account.

 

We don't do any real touring with my current band, but we pull a trailer with a Charger. If we play more than about an hour away, we try to make sure a hotel room is included with our contract, or we budget for it when determining our pay for the evening.

[Speedhead]

I toured with a 3 piece rock band for about 4 years straight. Started out with a 93 Chev Astro EXT. With one bench this was just right for the 3 guys, a 4 piece kit, bass and guitar amp, a few guitars, and clothes and what not. Up sized to a 97 Chev Express 3500 15 passenger. This took us across Canada a few times. Had enough room for all the previous mentioned gear plus a small PA system(2two 18" subs, two 15" tops, 3 small monitors, amps etc.) Both were good reliable vehicles that we travelled 125000 miles plus in.

Most recently I have a 2003 Chev Silverado Extended Cab. I picked up a box cover(canopy), and the box is enough space for a 3 piece band worth of equipment with NO PA. If a P.A. is required then I pull a small trailer as well.

 

So for no P.A. required, a half ton truck with a box cover works well, and would be a good daily driver still. And the fiberglass covers are easy to remove with two people when you dont need it.

[monthlymixcd]

+1 for a cage in a van or whatever. Pick up a used service vehicle on auction if you can for that... it'll already be in there most likely.

 

Ruling out a van makes it tough though... and the other vehicles you suggested get crap MPG. Using a trailer gives you a LOT more flexibility as far as also needing it to be your daily driver.

 

Your $12,000 budget also rules out most of the newer crossover options that could walk in both worlds and sip gas.

 

If it were me, I'd go the classic 60's VW van

 

or "Mystery Machine" route...

 

but that's probably just me.

 

EDIT: In all seriousness... you could probably get by with a carefully packed wagon. Not the best for winter driving, but the Dodge Magnums have been known to haul quite a bit of gear, can be had used for your $12Gs, and are a pretty stylish daily driver (although only 18MPG around town). They also come pre-tinted in the back to conceal all of your crap. A used Volvo XC70 will get you AWD and better gas mileage and either could tow a small trailer if you needed to schlepp a small PA.

[Mikoo69]

Hellinger, that ford limovan looks amazing, though where is the room for gear? i imagine we would have to tow a trailer in that thing? also dont need all those luxuries.

 

lets forget the daily driver thing. lets assume i will need something to drive a couple of miles each day to the store and what not, but mostly a tour van. i guess i am giving up on having a daily driver, though i assume i can use it for errands and such.

 

E450? Maybe i'm giving the wrong impression, but we are a band of 23-25 year olds just looking to get down to sxsw, up to nxne, and make some midwest runs, some local PA/Boston runs. Suggestions like the E450 confuse me, seems more like a "pro touring vehicle" and we are not at that stage yet.