Members JanetRenosBeard Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 Our vocalist runs a few standard boss guitar pedals for vocal effects. A few places we've played have not always had 1/4 in. inputs on the snakes. So he is planning on using a XLR to 1/4 in into the pedals and then 1/4 in to XLR into the snake. Will this cause any signal quality loss or will it work just as without adaptors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 Be careful. If there is phantom power activated at the console, it can fry your guitarist's pedals. Also, if the snake is long enough, the unbalanced signal can deteriorate and sound muddy. Buy a DI box for each 1/4" output you're running to the snake. If the guitarist has one send that goes to the house, plug that send into the DI, and an XLR cable from the DI to the snake. For stereo sends, do the same but with TWO DI's and TWO cables to the snake. As a general rule of thumb, every 1/4" output going to the mixer needs a DI between the source and the console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 +1 This is a good job for a DI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trevcda Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 Our vocalist runs a few standard boss guitar pedals for vocal effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 oh what the {censored}, I completely missed that OP said "vocalist". I thought this was a guitarist trying to go direct... which is kinda dumb in itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 Our vocalist runs a few standard boss guitar pedals for vocal effects. A few places we've played have not always had 1/4 in. inputs on the snakes. So he is planning on using a XLR to 1/4 in into the pedals and then 1/4 in to XLR into the snake. Will this cause any signal quality loss or will it work just as without adaptors? Some of the pros can step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that the preamps on those stompboxes are not impedance matched to your microphone. In laymans' terms: that's going to sound like dog{censored}. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Imwithpepe Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 Some of the pros can step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that the preamps on those stompboxes are not impedance matched to your microphone.In laymans' terms: that's going to sound like dog{censored}. In better terms, that's going to create a dog{censored} of a problem for the sound engineer. He's going to want to punch your "singer" in the face when he starts asking for more vocals in the monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 27, 2010 Members Share Posted July 27, 2010 In better terms, that's going to create a dog{censored} of a problem for the sound engineer. He's going to want to punch your "singer" in the face when he starts asking for more vocals in the monitor. I would imagine so, yeah. Hey OP, you MIGHT want to consider having your singer patch those devices into his channel insert on the board - you'll get a lot better frequency response and clarity that way. Or at least as good as can be expected using guitar stomps on vox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Hey OP, you MIGHT want to consider having your singer patch those devices into his channel insert on the board - you'll get a lot better frequency response and clarity that way. Most likely the signal level will be way too much for the boxes, and they (or at least the first one in the chain) will clip heavily, making for a terrible sound. If he must have effects other than those that are part of the PA, he should buy a box that is intended to be used with a quality vocal mic, not an electric guitar. And he should send two signals to the mixer - one dry, one 100% wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wades_keys Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Most likely the signal level will be way too much for the boxes, and they (or at least the first one in the chain) will clip heavily, making for a terrible sound.If he must have effects other than those that are part of the PA, he should buy a box that is intended to be used with a quality vocal mic, not an electric guitar. And he should send two signals to the mixer - one dry, one 100% wet. Yup - that's probably true. Those stomps are designed for high impedance passive pickups and not line level signals. We use a Lexicon MX300 - that's a great sounding reverb for the price in my opinion, and it's got flexible routing options. It's like having two separate effects devices in one: we run a compressor on a channel insert on one side of the unit, and then have a reverb or other effect assigned to the other side, aux-fed and patched into a fader for ultimate control of wet/dry ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members ToneGrail Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 Some of the pros can step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty certain that the preamps on those stompboxes are not impedance matched to your microphone.In laymans' terms: that's going to sound like dog{censored}. +1. He will also need a lo-z to hi-z transformer to convert his mic level signal into an instrument level signal. His chain would need to be: mic -> xlr -> transformer -> pedals -> direct box - > xlr -> snake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 The input to the stomp box will need a high to low Z transformer in order to get closer to the desired operating level and the output will need a high to low Z transformer or DI to match levels, impedance, balance and most importantly to isolate the possible application of phantom power to the output of the stomp box. I would try all this before the gig, I suspect the results will be uninspiring at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 You should send the mic into a mic pre before going to the stomps and then you should run the last stomp into a DI to convert it back to balanced mic level before sending it to a mixer. Mics and stomp boxes were never intended to be used together. You should look to one of the vocalist type efx units if you want to control things from the stage. Even that is pretty risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 In a band 10 years ago the vocalist used a Hi/Lo XLR to TS converter into a delay effects pedal, looks like: http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Adaptors/XLR_Transformer/CA-321/CA-321_cutsheet.shtml It worked, didn't sound that great but it worked. Anytime effects get added though the signal never remains as good as the original, so if what you're after is pretty crazy then just go for it. One thing to watch though is that if you're using a crybaby pedal then having a DI on the back end can do wierd thing to the signal. I don't remember exactly but I remember in not working at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted July 28, 2010 Members Share Posted July 28, 2010 BTW, I know it would be a nightmare but how come no-one makes a mic pre in a stompbox form with XLRF input and TS output. It would be real easy... maybe do a TS input to XLRM output too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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