"awesome" charity gig last night.....

[Coaster]

ooof.

 

 

 

i rearranged my schedule to fit this one in last night, 4 hours of bands outside. no big deal right? truth be told it could have been a lot worse, but it also wasnt that great either. i was hired by PA provider to setup, run it, tear it down. done it a million times. here's what happened:

 

show up at 4pm, no one can tell us where to park. i end up parking 15 min away and walking to site. site is a proffesional baseball field. site will not let vehicles pull trailer to stage area, closest i can get the trailer is 100+ yards from stage. only thing inbetween trailer and stage is dirt that entirely swallows 4" casters. only compromise after arguement? they will unhook trailer from vehicle and haul it with bobcat to the stage. this is ok with me, i understand they dont want folks driving on the field but i also know that no one in the world is better at backing a trailer through treacherous conditions better than PA provider. i have seen him do amazing things backing trialers.

 

at this point provider wants to walk off the gig. i talk him out of it, as i do this type of thing a lot and especially at my job where i do all kinds of crazy situations with folks that really dont understand production needs. negotiation is key; firm, polite, being prepared to bail if neccessary and letting them know if they cannot acccomodate you then the event cannot take place. this works often as long as emotions dont enter and it can remain a civil negotiation. i was able to negotiate with these folks quite well and got nearly everything i needed to do my job. provider stared at me with dropped jaw. what can i say, i do this a lot. i can negotiate with non music folks at events quite well and without raising my voice. yes, i was pissed too at this situation but i couldnt leave the band in a worse situation without a system and tried to make do as best i could.

 

stage is between home plate and the 4' cement wall that separates the field from the bleachers, jammed up against the wall. audience sits in bleachers. large foul ball net AKA blues brothers chicken wire between band and audience. oh boy, nowhere for FOH, nowhere for PA speakers, 220 is 50 yards away. more negotiating.

 

i get the go ahead to take up aisle space and block traffic at one location in the bleachers. i make it perfectly clear i will be blocking traffic. site manager ok's this. i set up on bleacher stairs after hauling midas venice into stands along with 16 space foh rack. that was a bitch.

 

negotiating brought in a distro with 50 yards of feeder. provider is in awe i am able to pull this of without much effort. i look at the distro and tell the guy the distro violates at least three codes i can see right off the bat - main breaker is 100A, feeder is 6/4SJ, has no kellums, the clamp is loose and the wires are just hanging through the hole. several missing breakers. feeder terminated with 14-50 plugged into an actual 50A breaker at a service panel (or more likely a subpanel). since the distro cannot be accessed by public and it is protected with a 50A breaker and otherwise meters and checks out fine (and has functioning GFCI's) i say i will use it. the site folks stare at me like i am a freak and dont see any problems. i tell them they need to have this thing fixed asap as it will kill someone in the wrong hands or at least start a serious fire (can you imagine pulling 100A through 6/4SJ?).

 

finally get things setup and running 45 minutes behind schedule (not bad) and soundcheck band while the venue is blasting music through house system. provider leaves.

 

show starts on time. constant barage from site folks asking to turn it down. i am approx 35' from band, i have a single stack per side and about 4400 watts total, for a fricken baseball stadium. its not loud by any means. "we cant hear people placing orders"

 

the first ten times i politely oblige and turn it down. finally some site woman comes up and basically reams me a new asshole about how they are not there for music, its too loud and i need to turn it down now. since it is practically OFF, i am 35' away and cant make out most of the vocals, cant hear the guitars, most of the drums are out, and pretty much can only hear the bass from the backline, i turn the pa off and say "look, its off. i am amplifying nothing. all the sound you hear is coming off stage. is it still too loud? if it is, i can go ask the band to leave and we will pack up and go home. you hired a band and production, we are trying to do our job, accomodate you, and the folks here in the audience are complaining to me that they cannot hear the words or the guitars. what exactly do you want me to accomplish?" this whole time the crowd is looking at me and her as they cannot hear anything now whereas they could kind of hear something before. she says -

 

"can you leave it at this volume? we will just have to make do with this amount of noise"

 

keep in mind the pa is OFF. at this point i have been there 4 hours, had to negotiate every aspect of THEIR event, teach them how to HAVE A BAND, and haul {censored} into bleachers (not fun). i am pissed.

 

i tell the band whats going on. we decide to shut down the rig for AN HOUR; SILENCE, NO BREAK TUNES; NOTHING.

 

then at 9pm we start back up full bore, tickling the limiters on the amps. no further complaints. this is either do to most folks having already ordered their food, or the site folks got the fact that the band and i were ready to pull it. i am not sure. rest of the show went fine.

 

there is another band there tonite, same situation, same event, only i know this band and the production they bring. they are nowhere near as flexible or accomodating or willing to compromise as i am. i would love to be there to watch the sheer horror and carnage but i am not going.

 

what they need to do is have a separate band area that doesnt fire into the food booths. i told them this and tried to accomodate them as best i could, but they will probably think i am difficult (ha ha, i was SOOO helpful and accomodating in reality) at least until tonite, when the smackdown happens.

[Mogwix]

Sounds like just another day.

[Coaster]

a poorly planned day. i'm getting too old to put up with {censored} gigs.

[Coaster]

did i mention they tried to pay me in lobsters? no joke.

[Coaster]

here is a video of the local news about 15 minutes before the night was over. i honestly believe they had some issue on their end because if you watch the video you will hear that you cannot hear the announcer. it was not loud, as i was also standing near the announcer and quiet conversation was possible between folks several feet apart.

 

http://www.valleynewslive-ondemand.com/video/html/video5.shtml

 

edit: i have to be wrong on this. in the video it was lite out, it had to be at 6pm rather than 10pm. the band played one half song at soundcheck at around 6:15 or so. talk about bad timing. they played this same song at around 10 pm.

 

they probably quit playing right when the announcer stopped talking:facepalm:

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

a poorly planned day. i'm getting too old to put up with {censored} gigs.

 

Speaking of which:

 

I'm curious how a local charity show (a week ago) went ... I ended up not doing it... because the organizers MOL decided they didn't care to afford to pay me to put up with a {censored} gig.

 

FWIW, here's the story:

 

The LIC got ahold of me a couple months ago... which IMO was already total crisis mode for lining up production for an event of this size. The entertainer for this charity gig is a well know (like top-40 status... there's no doubt in my mind that 95%+ of the folks reading this have heard this guy) C&W artist who just happens to have a ranch in the general area. I suspect this artist generally commands $20K+ per performance. Tickets for this event are $35 advance general admission ($50ea. as I recall, the day of the show)... expected crowd size of 1k-5k (some real money involved). It's a late afternoon/evening outdoor gig (lighting required

[Coaster]

ouch that sounds like you definitely dodged a large PITA mark.

 

a day and a dollar later i gotta say my event wasnt that bad. it was for a good cause. i wish it could have gone better, and it could have gone better. i think they did make money for their cause, and i am happy for them. i really only had issue with the one lady who decided to ream me out and i tried damn hard to remain polite to her although she probably doesnt think i did. the second band really rocked and sounded great and while it was a total pain in the ass setup wise i would and will do it again - its what i do.

 

and then i may complain about it too.

 

weather was bad today, lots of short fast heavy monsoon type rain followed by drizzle (well, as monsoon as fargo gets - i've lived in monsoon areas and we dont get that) i hope the band/provider made out ok.

[W. M. Hellinger]

ouch that sounds like you definitely dodged a large PITA mark.

 

Yea... and I'm guessing that charity event wasn't the first time a major recording artist did a 1K - 5K attendence charity show @ $35 - $50 tickets... and the "PA" was {censored} on a stick, the "lighting rig" was a car's headlights, the backline gear "didn't show"... so the entertainer did the show without his band... and just did it solo, acoustic... with the one mic provided and said: "I'm never doing that again!" (which is how I understand it went down)

 

Oh... and as I understand it: Afterwards, the organizers were "all hi-5's all around" for "hitting one out of the ballpark".

[lifeloverwg]

did i mention they tried to pay me in lobsters? no joke.

 

In North Dakota???? You sure they weren't crayfish? At the least I hope they were Rock lobsters!

 

Something new everyday around this joint. Winston

[Coaster]

In North Dakota???? You sure they weren't crayfish? At the least I hope they were Rock lobsters! Something new everyday around this joint. Winston

 

yep. watch the news vid i linked while its still active. lobster and lefsa :poke:

[W. M. Hellinger]

In North Dakota???? You sure they weren't crayfish? At the least I hope they were Rock lobsters! Something new everyday around this joint. Winston

Liz & I have gone on vacation a couple of times, once to Hawaii (in '89 as I recall) and once to the Oregon Coast (maybe inna about '84???). Anyhoo... we went to the Oregon Coast specifically 'cause we had a powerful hankering for seafood. Drove, drove, drove... blowing one hundred dollar bill after another on... well... stuff being passed off as "seafood".

 

The punch line of the story is that the best seafood meal we had on that trip was somewhere on the order of 400 miles inland... at a Skippers restaurant... for about 1/10th the price we'd paid on the coast for... well... whatever that stuff was we had on the coast.

 

Best Idaho potato I think I've ever eaten (besides those I've grown myself) was in Evansville IN.

[schismpunk]

WMH - A couple questions:

 

"no BE, no LD" - May be a stupid question, but what are the acronyms?

 

Second, where did you go on the Oregon Coast? I realize it was before I was born, but just curious...

[TimmyP]

BE = band engineer (soundman/soundgirl).

 

LD = lighting director (light guy/light girl).

[Mogwix]

 

I think I probably dodged a bullet.

 

I agree, situations like this always go downhill and fast.

 

I told this story before, I think. A local group of people (a musician and his siblings) decided to put on a concert to raise money for cancer research. They got all kinds of donations from local businesses, local organizations, and local government. The headlining band was a major label recording artist, asking something like $25k to perform... normal stuff. This group approached us to provide sound and light, so we got a hold of the rider (which is super basic touring stuff) and said "ok, no problem. since you guys are local and since this is for a good cause, we'll give you a deal on the production costs." They gave us a confused look and said "oh... we thought you'd donate the whole thing?" After we finished laughing we said no... for a covered stage, generator, sound, light and backline... no way. We offered to give them a huge discount but they wouldn't take it... they said they didn't have the money to pay us.

 

They found some other company to come in and do it (for much less than we quoted) and didn't bring in nearly enough rig for the job. The headlining band was pissed that the rider wasn't met. They were contracted to play an hour and a half set with the full band, but it ended up being a 15 minute acoustic solo set and they left.

 

As we found out later, basically everyone involved got ripped off. They'd show up to do their job and once invoiced, the group would say "oh, we thought you were donating your services?" They ripped off the vendors, a local fashion designer, all the bands, the porta-potty dudes, even the paramedics and the damn police. When we looked into it, we found out that the group must've gotten around $50,000 in donations for the event, and for all the people that did actually show up, they probably grossed quite a bit more due to ripping off so many people. In the end, the organization supporting cancer research got something like $300. The rest of the money just disappeared.

[Crowder]

My wife is a professional event planner and has planned tons of charity events. Some people in that business know what they're doing, but most are rank amateurs. They have one goal in mind: raise as much money as possible, NET. That means get stuff donated if possible, or cheap if that's the only way. I know it's incredibly frustrating to be on the wrong end of a deal like that, where riders are out the window and there's no "responsible party" except every board member who feels the right to bitch at every service provider who doesn't do everything just right.

 

I've worked on both ends, as a solicitor of services on behalf of a charity and as a provider of same.

 

On the flip side, there are also "pros" and "less than pros" in the event production business. Even some of the people who are "pros" with the gear aren't pros at dealing with stressed-out people who don't understand what the production involves.

 

What I mean by that is that it seems like very few production engineers take time away from the nuts and bolts of their production to explain the features and limitations of the production gear to the organizers. It's a fact that a lot of people who hire live music either don't know or don't care about minimum possible sound levels. They don't understand that a band cannot be quieter than it's loudest element (likely the drummer) and it still sound like music instead of just drums or whatever. They don't realize that the vocals have to be heard above the amplifiers, and that takes certain SPL's to achieve. They want and expect to be able to control a live band like a radio.

 

So you end up in the classic Mexican standoff, with the band/sound guy faction who wants to put on a show the way they think will sound best, and the organizer/patron faction who wants an enjoyable event with a good atmosphere that adds lots of money to the charity's bottom line.

 

I think if more production people spent a few quiet minutes educating the organizers about what to expect, things would often go a lot more smoothly. Once your in the heat of the battle, it's a lot harder to see both points of view.

 

Call me crazy, but I also think the "event" should always win, especially over the egos of either faction. The event is the reason that anyone at all showed up there that day, whether to play/present music or give money or get drunk or whatever. Sometimes the entertainment production has to be adapted to the situation, whatever that may mean. It may not be easy, but if the alternative is ruining the atmosphere of the event, then the entertainment has to back down. IMHO threatening to walk off the gig is the opposite of professional. It would be like a doctor walking out of surgery because it was too cold in the OR, or a lawyer walking out of court because it was too hot.

 

I think this is exactly like the battle between the sound man and guy with the overloud amp. Everyone on Earth except that guitar player may think that he needs to turn it down, but he's too into the moment to realize it and doesn't want anyone telling him how to do his thing.

 

YMMV

IMHO

and with all due respect!

[Coaster]

i assume you are in no way talking about me? cuz if you are then you are way off base.

[Crowder]

 

i assume you are in no way talking about me? cuz if you are then you are way off base.

 

 

Nope, nothing personal intended.

[Shaster]

Coaster, wow... seems like you can never have too little rig for the gig. Reminds me of an outdoor gig I did with two 8" speakers and one 15" sub. Wound up not micing anything but vocals and we were still too loud.

 

Some of these folks have only seen bands on TV; or maybe they have seen a cocktail piano player. They have no idea about typical or even quiet operating levels.

 

I would have blown up very early in the proceedings - kudos on keeping your cool, maybe a job at the UN is in store for you?

[Coaster]

i despise the UN and all other forms of "one world" oligarchies/dictatorships.

 

negotiating is not pleasant; i get results based on experience and having worked with these types - i know they are not bad people, want to get things done, and have basically good intentions for the most part. obiously you get the ME ME ME assholes as well but i choose to avoid those people as they cannot help me in any way.

 

mostly they need to be told what i need from them in a non condescending, not demeaning manner and they are usually happy to help out as much as they can.

 

i do feel kinda bad about wrecking the newscast, but i had no idea it was happening untill the next day.

[tacitus]

Here in the UK I do charity jobs sometimes and I always get near enough fulm price for them. And if I discount the normal rate, it says on the invoice exactly how much I'm giving them. However, this is usually for miking up a whole concert band or orchestra for a 'last night of the proms' type concert. There is enough margin for promoters to pay for services and still have a donation left at the end. But when it comes to being asked to work for nothing, the worst people here are teachers, who seem to spend months talking down the ticket price so everybody can afford it then wondering why nobody wants to work for little or nothing to make it happen.

[Unalaska]

The only way I work for free is if I do a gig and something breaks, I get it repaired and it costs as much as the gig pays.

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

Second, where did you go on the Oregon Coast? I realize it was before I was born, but just curious...

 

Oh... I believe we hit the coast at about Cannon Beach then ate our way down 101 to Coos Bay.

 

I did manage to make a couple of A #1 sand castles... and played on the dunes.

[philw44]

 

The only way I work for free is if I do a gig and something breaks, I get it repaired and it costs as much as the gig pays.

 

 

Those gigs suck more than ones you work for free!

 

I've done three 'Free' gigs in this last fortnight. Did sound for 20+ bands over 2 days for one of them.

 

Enough unpaid work for the year me thinks