PA for band practice pt 2...questions about EQ placement

[mhuxtable]

some of you may remember my thread a while back about my band needed a PA just for rehearsal & what my needs were.

 

I got some great advice and basically i need a mixer, eqs & active monitors.

 

so i got a mackie 1402 VLZ Pro used and an Alesis eq 230 stereo EQ unit. still looking for a deal for monitors on CL.

 

so this is gonna sound really dumb so please go easy on me:

 

do i run the EQs between the mixer & the speakers or through a send on the Mackie?

 

and if they go between the mixer & speakers, that means I run speaker cables to the EQ & then speaker cables into the speakers??? or can the EQ use either speaker cables or instrument cables (depending on where it is place...meaning between the board & speakers or in a Send).

 

so yeah, where does the EQ go??

 

sorry.

[twostone]

Your eq will go in between your mixer and amp. Then amp to speaker.

[agedhorse]

Clarification... Powered monitors have the amp inside the monitor.

[SteinbergerHack]

If you're using powered monitors, you will run SIGNAL cable (not speaker cable) from the output of the console to the EQ in, then from the EQ out to the speaker amp in.

 

Speaker cable is only used between a power amp and non-powered speakers. Everything else is shielded, balanced if possible.

[mhuxtable]

 

If you're using powered monitors, you will run SIGNAL cable (not speaker cable) from the output of the console to the EQ in, then from the EQ out to the speaker amp in. Speaker cable is only used between a power amp and non-powered speakers. Everything else is shielded, balanced if possible.

 

 

AHH! see that's what i needed to know....so if we use active speakers, then it's all signal cables.

 

are signal cables the same as instrument/guitar cables basically??

[twostone]

 

AHH! see that's what i needed to know....so if we use active speakers, then it's all signal cables. are signal cables the same as instrument/guitar cables basically??

 

 

No their bablanced cables either XLR usually called mic cables or TRS clbes that look like a instrument cable but TRS meaning Tip Ring Sleeve.

 

Here's a simple diagram

Mixer main L/R> EQ in/out> active speaker using XRL cables

if your EQ doesn't support XLR you can buy XLR to TRS or like I do but most guy hate them barrel apdaptors.

 

here's link to xlr to 1/4" TRS http://www.audiopile.net/products/Mic_Instr_Cables/MP_Adaptor_Cbls/Adaptor_cables_product_page.shtml

 

here's to the barrel adaptors http://www.audiopile.net/products/Adaptors_Connectors/Adaptors/XLR_Barrel/XLR_Barrel.shtml

 

Your best bet is to contact Mark tell him what you got and what you plan on and he can suggest your best rotuing option.

[Craig Vecchione]

And yes, it can be *very* confusing to figure out cabling when you're new at it. Don't be afraid to ask, as it's much easier than replacing damaged gear.

 

 

To clarify (hopefully):

 

Instrument cables such as you use for guitar have 1/4" plugs with 2 contacts. The contacts are called the Tip and the Ring. Hence, "TR" cable. These are "unbalanced" cable. There is only one signal conductor in and unbalanced cable. Unbalanced cable doesn't reject electronic interference (radio, static, etc) so is good for short runs...maybe 20 feet, give or take.

 

Mic or line cables are balanced cable. Balanced cable has 2 signal conductors. Put simply, the two signals "balance" each other, and any other noise that's picked up is likely only on one conductor, and out of balance. The device you plug into rejects the 'out of balance' signal stuff, so you don't hear noise. Balanced cable ends have 3 contacts. The 1/4" variety look like a "stereo" plug. They have a Tip, Ring and Sleeve contact, hence "TRS". The XLR have 3 pins.

 

You have to read the manual for your gear to determine whether the 1/4" jacks are TRS (balanced) or TS (unbalanced). There's no point in using balance cable unless both ends it plugs into are balanced devices. In other words the cable doesn't "Make" the connection balanced.

 

All of these cables have small conductors, and are shielded. The shield is a foil or braided wrap all the way around the signal conductor(s). In unbalanced guitar cable, the shield is the "return" conductor that completes the circuit. Conversely, speaker cables are not shielded, and have large conductors to carry the much higher voltage and current of a speaker-level circuit.

 

By comparison, a mic or instrument signal is about 0.006 volts. A line-level signal (the output from a mixer, preamp, etc. to an amp or EQ) is about 1-2 volts. The output of a 500w power amplifier is about 50 volts.

[Yer Blues]

OP, I have noticed with my powered speakers that very little EQ'ing is necessary for practicing with only vocals going through the PA. I can pretty much turn them on and am good to go.

[mhuxtable]

 

OP, I have noticed with my powered speakers that very little EQ'ing is necessary for practicing with only vocals going through the PA. I can pretty much turn them on and am good to go.

 

 

yeah but we have 7 people (3 guitars, keys, bass drums, extra vocal) and 5 of us sing....so feedback become an issue that's why we need the EQs.

 

 

so basically I'm running an XLR or TRS out from the mixer to TRS to the EQs...then TRS out of the EQ to a TRS or XLR for the speakers?

[twostone]

 

yeah but we have 7 people (3 guitars, keys, bass drums, extra vocal) and 5 of us sing....so feedback become an issue that's why we need the EQs. so basically I'm running an XLR or TRS out from the mixer to TRS to the EQs...then TRS out of the EQ to a TRS or XLR for the speakers?

 

 

Yep your Alesis digital EQ has 1/4" TRS in/out so

so you'll wanna come out of the mixer with XLR to TRS then out of EQ TRS to XLR into your active speaker. What kind of active speaker do you have?

 

Contact Mark over at Audiopile IMO he sells the best damn affordable cables in the biz. There sort of like monster cables minus the huge price mark up Monster charges.

[mhuxtable]

 

Yep your Alesis digital EQ has 1/4" TRS in/out so so you'll wanna come out of the mixer with XLR to TRS then out of EQ TRS to XLR into your active speaker. What kind of active speaker do you have? Contact Mark over at Audiopile IMO he sells the best damn affordable cables in the biz. There sort of like monster cables minus the huge price mark up Monster charges.

 

 

we don't have speakers yet, but i'm hoping to get active ones. still looking on CL & at local shops for a used set.

 

audiophile is the company??

[twostone]

 

we don't have speakers yet, but i'm hoping to get active ones. still looking on CL & at local shops for a used set. audiophile is the company??

 

 

Audiopile leave the h out. http://www.audiopile.net/

 

Mark and Liz own and run the place. Awesome folks to do your biz. with and Mark the owner is a forum member here.

 

 

Might try this guy ( Mike) for used active gear which also is a member here.http://www.audiopyle.com/

 

I've dealt with both folks and highly recommend both folks for your PA and cable needs.

 

Maybe later on if want add lighting gear chat with Bill over on the lighting forum. Looks like they made him take his link off his signature and I can't recall his store name. Also a forum member here.