What is a Great Small Mixer with Best Mic Pres and Phantom Power

[modulusman]

Oh well, at least he's paying $180 for essentially the same mixer I suggested at $99.

 

Craig, It gets better. Had he went with your suggestion he would have gotten a 5 year warranty with the Peavey. Instead he gets a year with the soundcraft.

[Craig Vecchione]

Why worry about that? "Nice" pre's are where it's at.

[Coaster]

i dont get the whole nice pre thing if a pre changes or adds anything to the sound except matching the level it is broken in my opinion.

 

supposedly the pre's in my motu 8pre are "horrible", yet i have gotten some of the best live 2 track ensemble recordings using it that i have ever heard. i park the pre's at ten o'clock and thats it; done.

 

the digi hardware was mentioned, but i dont think the crummy sound of digi hardware has much to do with the pre's; from what i understand the sound has improved with the newer stuff (i have been forced to use an 002 and thought it wasnt awful, but not great either. kinda so so).

 

i dunno. i've gotten great sounds from junky mackies, mg yamahas, cheap soundcraft mixers; all low end stuff but seemed to match the level of the mic with whatever i had the mixer plugged into without fuss. i've gotten great sounds from more expensive stuff inbetween mic and gear as well, and i never thought it had a lot to do with the hardware attached to the trim knob.

 

maybe i need those rocks or oxygen free directional mic cable?

[Bobby1Note]

what about propane related accessories? bobby?

 

 

You rang??? :poke: Why are you getting me into this.

 

I don't get summa you guys sometimes. The guy comes here for help, and gets ridiculed because he talks about "sweet sounding mic pre's"??????? Geez, that's what the "talk" is like on a lot of the "musician" forums. Big deal. At least he came here and asked, and personally, I think he made a smart choice. Certainly a helluva lot better than going with the Mackie he was considering.(no service, no support, no parts)

 

I often see these little Peavy and plastic-chassis Yamaha boards get recommended, but I gotta say, when you check out the reviews, the general consensus is that they're not exactly the greatest sounding boards out there. Sure, a lot of that may be due to user error or inexperience, but who cares? It's "their" experience.

 

SoundCraft makes some damned fine little boards IMO, and offers good product and client support. Vertically mounted PCB's, pots nutted to a steel chassis, etc. Not "disposable crap" like so many others out there when things go wrong.

 

As for "sounding good", who cares if it's because of a combination of things like a more musical EQ, or a lower noise-floor, or better dynamic range, or more "usable" FX, orrrrr, "sweet-sounding pre's"? It doesn't matter,,, as long as to them, it "sounds good", and it's relatively easy to get there.

 

The irony in the ridicule here, is that a lot of guys are riding faders on a MixWiz(or better). Maybe they should all just save some dough and go with a Yammie or a Peavy board,,, after all,,,, it doesn't matter,, right?

 

OK,,, rant over. Have at me now. Got my flame-suit on.

[Coaster]

 

As for "sounding good", who cares if it's because of a combination of things like a more musical EQ, or a lower noise-floor, or better dynamic range , or more "usable" FX, orrrrr, "sweet-sounding pre's"? It doesn't matter,,, as long as to them, it "sounds good", and it's relatively easy to get there. The irony in the ridicule here, is that a lot of guys are riding faders on a MixWiz(or better). Maybe they should all just save some dough and go with a Yammie or a Peavy board,,, after all,,,, it doesn't matter,, right?

 

 

well none of that is a pre

 

btw, look up "king of the hill".

[Dogoth]

It's rarely about mic pre's, and more about the rest of the architecture of the mixer (summing amps, ground/chassis layout, RF filtering, channel EQ etc...). As stated these differences only appear in way high end boards. About the only difference you MIGHT see is noise specs. That said, at the price point you'r asking about, and with a signal from a mic'd electric guitar amp, the difference will be neglible.

 

Buy what will live the longest for the money and has the features you need (which sound pretty sparce).

 

That's my .02

[Bobby1Note]

well none of that is a pre btw, look up "king of the hill".

 

Sorry, I'm aware of "King of the Hill", but I've never watched it. Probably funny though, since it's won so many awards. I doubt that I watch more than 2-3 hours of TV per week, and that's usually the news. I have more fun and usually better entertainment here.

 

I kid you not when I say that my TV set is hooked up to a set of rabbit-ears, and I only get one channel. For that matter, I've never owned a cell-phone either.

[1tallbassguy]

From the units recommended so far, which ones have balanced line-outs on them?

I need a small mixer also, but it needs to have balanced line-outs.

[modulusman]

You rang??? :poke: Why are you getting me into this. I don't get summa you guys sometimes. The guy comes here for help, and gets ridiculed because he talks about "sweet sounding mic pre's"??????? Geez, that's what the "talk" is like on a lot of the "musician" forums. Big deal. At least he came here and asked, and personally, I think he made a smart choice. Certainly a helluva lot better than going with the Mackie he was considering.(no service, no support, no parts) I often see these little Peavy and plastic-chassis Yamaha boards get recommended, but I gotta say, when you check out the reviews, the general consensus is that they're not exactly the greatest sounding boards out there. Sure, a lot of that may be due to user error or inexperience, but who cares? It's "their" experience. SoundCraft makes some damned fine little boards IMO, and offers good product and client support. Vertically mounted PCB's, pots nutted to a steel chassis, etc. Not "disposable crap" like so many others out there when things go wrong. As for "sounding good", who cares if it's because of a combination of things like a more musical EQ, or a lower noise-floor, or better dynamic range, or more "usable" FX, orrrrr, "sweet-sounding pre's"? It doesn't matter,,, as long as to them, it "sounds good", and it's relatively easy to get there. The irony in the ridicule here, is that a lot of guys are riding faders on a MixWiz(or better). Maybe they should all just save some dough and go with a Yammie or a Peavy board,,, after all,,,, it doesn't matter,, right? OK,,, rant over. Have at me now. Got my flame-suit on.

 

I have a Peavey PV10 that sounds just fine. I also have an LX7ii that is my main board. would you post some links to where people think the Peavey boards suck. The user reviews on the board Craig reccomended here http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-PV6-Mixer?sku=631366 seam pretty high.

[abzurd]

 

From the units recommended so far, which ones have balanced line-outs on them? I need a small mixer also, but it needs to have balanced line-outs.

 

 

I'm assuming most, if not all will be balanced. For instance the cheap Yamaha board has balanced main outs (says +4 dBu right next to the jack even). The monitor and aux outs are also balanced. If you use RCA jack outs they will not be balanced and will be -10 dBu.

[agedhorse]

+4 can be balanced or unbalanced. You need to look at the spec sheet to determine this. Rare is a -10 out, even unbalanced except for home stereo stuff.

[Bobby1Note]

I have a Peavey PV10 that sounds just fine. I also have an LX7ii that is my main board. would you post some links to where people think the Peavey boards suck. The user reviews on the board Craig reccomended here http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-PV6-Mixer?sku=631366 seam pretty high.

 

I didn't say "Peavy sucked". In fact, my personal impression is that Peavy generally makes pretty decent and durable gear throughout their product range. I personally have no experience using Peavy boards. I just don't see many people gushing over "transparent sounding" small Peavy boards, nor do I see people raving about the FX. In general, at least in the reviews I have read, comments seem to suggest "passable" fx at best.

 

I kept my recommendation to the small Soundcraft board because I like the unit,,,, a lot, and because I've had a very positive experience using my SoundCraft EFX-8. I didn't "knock" the other boards.

 

FWIW, I rarely pay attention to most "user reviews", unless they make direct comparisons. For example,,,, "I had a Yamaha MG series, and I recently replaced it with a (insert brand/model here), and I prefer the (insert brand/model here) because,,,(insert specific reasons why here),,,yada yada yada. I put zero value on reviews that gush all over a product, simply because the inexperienced buyer is justifying a purchasing decision. Those types of reviews are generally tall on hype and opinion, and short on facts and objectivity.

 

In his original post, the OP refers to a Great River pre-amp. He's obviously done some of his homework, because this is a highly regarded studio mic-pre. Google it sometime, or go read the comments over at Gearslutz. I'd kill to have one in my studio.

[philw44]

Well - i can hear differences between the budget Peavey/Yamaha/Behringer offerings. They definitely have their own recognizable coloration.

 

If all the components are *roughly the same* for these level of boards then what is making them sound different from each other?

[agedhorse]

 

Well - i can hear differences between the budget Peavey/Yamaha/Behringer offerings. They definitely have their own recognizable coloration. If all the components are *roughly the same* for these level of boards then what is making them sound different from each other?

 

 

Could be something as simple as the pot tapers which will change the feel. Could be any number ofthings other than the mic pres. Could also be that you are trying a little too hard to hear the differnec and it also may mean that even though there may be slight differences there may not be a universal "better" amongst them.

[Bobby1Note]

 

it also may mean that even though there may be slight differences there may not be a universal "better" amongst them.

 

 

It's those "slight differences" that add to the overall sound. Surely, the "average joe" wouldn't necessarily notice the difference between a Great River studio preamp, and an ordinary consumer preamp, but for those with a reasonably trained ear, those tiny differences can sometimes make all the difference in the world to the "sound" that they're after, and they're willing to fork out the dough to get there.

 

Up above, Monkeyland referred to the sound of his DigiDesign 003r, and I'm a bit familiar with the talk about some of the DIgi (002r?) units. Many seem to blame the DAC's or the ADC's, and they don't find these units as pleasing to the ear when compared to some of the other solutions. Lacking in musicality as I understand it.

 

There seems to be a fairly large proportion of people who have moved on to warmer, or more transparent sounding units, or units that seem to have better "presence" and punch, like the API studio pre-amps. The Apogee pre-amps for example, seem to have a reputation for massive, yet very clean gain (76dB as I recall). Great Rivers' pre-amps, apparently have a lot of "character", vs sterility.

 

Obviously though, we're not comparing these to the under $50.00/channel pre's that we see on most consumer consoles. A two-channel Great River (MP2NV??), sells for roughly $2500. for example

[agedhorse]

Sometimes the high cost makes folks believe in something that is not there.

 

The world is full of emperors and their new clothes. There is a lot of money to be made if this approach is embraced. The typical "high end" consumer is easily fooled and even more easily parted with their money if they "believe" in something no matter how foolish. Look at the high end hi-fi market (I have designed a few products for that industry) and for the most part utterly full of ignorant fools who spout the golden ear of wisdom without a second thought.

 

Put these guys into a true double-blind test and their golden ears vanish every time.

[madjack]

Sort of reminds me of the old Blatz taste tests from the 70s.

[dboomer]

Yep:thu:

[Bobby1Note]

Sometimes the high cost makes folks believe in something that is not there. The world is full of emperors and their new clothes. There is a lot of money to be made if this approach is embraced. The typical "high end" consumer is easily fooled and even more easily parted with their money if they "believe" in something no matter how foolish. Look at the high end hi-fi market (I have designed a few products for that industry) and for the most part utterly full of ignorant fools who spout the golden ear of wisdom without a second thought. Put these guys into a true double-blind test and their golden ears vanish every time.

 

It would strike me as ridiculous to paint the entire hi-end audio consumer world with the same brush. I do agree that you're 90+% right however. Most of the BS is in the low and mid-fi world. Fact is, most folks will never come in contact with that really hi-end stuff, nor be able to make direct A/B comparisons. Some of it can be truly breath-taking, and it's not always the most expensive gear that really shines. I sincerely doubt that any honest-to-goodness audiophile, would allow himself to be influenced by brand-name, or price for that matter.

 

In the pro-audio world; surely you're not suggesting that most recording engineers are idiots for buying and using hi-end gear in their studios. As I see it, many of these guys seek very specific performance characteristics from their gear,,, mic pre's included. Again though, it's not always "the most expensive" that provides the specific desired result.

[agedhorse]

I would not hesitate to suggest that most audiophiles are educated beyond their own intelligence and believe they, and only they, can hera things that do not exist when subject to scientific testing such as double-blind. It's the perceived exclusivity to club of rarified air of cork sniffing snobs that takes away all senses of rationality.

 

In the recording world, I am suggesting that many are buying this crap because they have clients that read about how you can't make a good record (CD etc.) without model XYZ preamp or whatever. If the studio wants to survive or prosper, they have to play the game. It's for the most part (not completely) a stupid, senseless game that has no winners.

 

Ironicly, the game is also played in the pro audio live sound world too. And just aboout every world where somebody feels the need to be better than somebody else and this is more easily accomplished by buying something rather than working hard at it. Once you get into a certain level of gear, any improvements beyond that are so small as to be unjustifyable to 99.9% of the users. Even the pro users. Where that point is is up to discussion, but certainly brand and model envy is alive and well.

[Dogoth]

I would not hesitate to suggest that most audiophiles are educated beyond their own intelligence and believe they, and only they, can hera things that do not exist when subject to scientific testing such as double-blind. It's the perceived exclusivity to club of rarified air of cork sniffing snobs that takes away all senses of rationality. In the recording world, I am suggesting that many are buying this crap because they have clients that read about how you can't make a good record (CD etc.) without model XYZ preamp or whatever. If the studio wants to survive or prosper, they have to play the game. It's for the most part (not completely) a stupid, senseless game that has no winners. Ironicly, the game is also played in the pro audio live sound world too. And just aboout every world where somebody feels the need to be better than somebody else and this is more easily accomplished by buying something rather than working hard at it. Once you get into a certain level of gear, any improvements beyond that are so small as to be unjustifyable to 99.9% of the users. Even the pro users. Where that point is is up to discussion, but certainly brand and model envy is alive and well.

 

Often in marketing, it's all about Pedigree.

[wades_keys]

Sort of reminds me of the old Blatz taste tests from the 70s.

BWA HA HA.

 

Blatz.

 

OMG, I haven't heard that name in almost 30 years.

 

That's great. :lol:

[agedhorse]

Often in marketing, it's all about Pedigree.

 

That's why some brands get bought and sold so many times after they should have been buried.

[BigMac5]

never, ever buy mackie anything.

[Coaster]

 

whats wrong?