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his thoughts were that we seriously needed single subs on each side for mains (JBL PRX 518), two tops per side for mains (he suggested 12 inch PRX512), a GL2400 board, three EQs (two for monitors and third for mains), a compressor of some type, and at least six monitors ( we have up to five singers and 5 musicians at any one time, he suggested the PRX512 again but said we could save some money by going with some used Mackie powered 12s he had, two monitor mixes were suggested, one for singers and one for musicians). Total cost BEFORE cables, racks, stands and other misc. stuff that is required to put everything together: $15,000+. He also strongly suggested more subs for the outside gigs and felt it wouldn

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this is absurd. your original system idea fits better than this.

 

 

Really? This is good to hear, and shows the value of these forums, I know very little about live sound. But I could talk your ear off about Strats and amps.

 

And it didn't seem odd to me at the time, some of the festivals around here have line arrays hanging on scaffolding, and tons of subs in front of the stage, and like 20 people standing around listening to the band.

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You know, if I was in your place, I would lean toward starting out with something like the #3 Yorkie system which is small and easy to move. It will sound good, store easy, and be simple for a church to setup and run. Use the difference in cost between that and the JBL #5 system to get a couple of small powered speakers for monitors and call it a day (assuming you have a few mics and stands already or you will have to leave a budget for that too.)

 

Nobody starts out with everything they need. I also subscribe to the buy once, cry once maxim, but this would be a decent start to a decent system for what you want to do. It is something you can build on and will certainly do the shows you mentioned.

 

EDIT: I should add this. I attend a really small church, 30 people on a good Sunday morning. They had the dreaded 4 channel Kustom with 10"s when I started going there. I have donated extra gear as I could to help them just like you are. I gave them:

 

1) Mixwiz 16:2 (bought new for $750)

2) JBL EON 10s (2) (used for $500 for both)

3) Beta 58 (used for $100)

4) SM57 (new for $80)

5) AKG C1000 (2) (used for $200 for both)

6) Audio Technica Pro45 (2) (new for $100 for the pair)

7) Audio Technica Freeway 200 (lavalier system) (freebie)

8) Shure SC4 (really old wireless 58) (used for $30 from another board)

 

This has worked out well for the church. It isn't the best PA ever by any means. Most here would call it a sub-par club system and they would be right. However it works just fine for our needs and cost me about $1800 with the required cables I made for them.) Scour the ads, solicit donations from local guys that dump really old gear, make low offers to guys selling stuff on the boards and tell them what you need it for and sometimes they will accept the offer as a good deed....some did that for me.) Be creative.

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this is absurd. your original system idea fits better than this.

 

 

Totally agree. That guy was a commissioned salesman. Your original idea was fine.

 

I concur with the powered speakers. They make set up very easy. 4 powered 10" or 12" speakers and a small (12 channel?) passive mixer and you will be fine. You can add as you go if you feel something is needed. That is another advantage of powered speakers.

 

Look for used EONG2s. They are plenty loud and since they have been updated, older capable speakers are available at great prices. Same with PRX500 series. They will cost more but they are a huge step up from the EONs.

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That number 3 looks pretty good for what you want to do. I don't know about running bass through it, it might be easier for the bass player to add another cabinet to his own rig. With #3, I think you could always add a sub or two later. Lots of people love that mixer, and if you have access to a monitor setup, all the better...

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I should probably add, this is for a traveling group from our church that gets asked to play local comunity picnics, festivals, and other church's events.

 

 

Our regular sanctuary has a pretty good sound system installed. Originally we were not allowed to "borrow" any of it for traveling, but recently were given permission to borrow the monitors and associated amp when we travel. Everything else is off limits though.

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I'd start with a Mix Wixard and 4 PRX612m (PRX612m are the new version of the PRX512m).


Later on, add a couple more PRX612ms and a pair of the PRX618LF.


Since you starting from scratch, the best option is powered speakers.

 

 

I agree with this, you will end up with way less hassle, a great sounding system and resale value in the end. Also, was simpler to set up and operate. You could also try to find some good used PRX-512's but the resale value is still pretty high)

 

Yes, there are ways to make it cheaper but it depends on what you are looking for in the end.

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Thanks for the replies so far everyone!

 

So are the PRX 512 discontinued? Just wondering if my quote guy has a supply to use up, or if he meant to say PRX 612 instead. This was supposed to be for new mains.

 

That number 3 looks pretty good for what you want to do. I don't know about running bass through it, it might be easier for the bass player to add another cabinet to his own rig.

 

:facepalm: If you only knew how many times the bass player has asked if he should bring his other cab. The man loves his Ampegs and has two of those 6 x 10 cabs with the wheels already installed. :lol:

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is this system something you will keep and use in the future or a system to tour with once and just get the performers a little boost?

 

either case does not need at $15k rock system. your original plan is not appetizing to me personally, but it really depends on what you plan to do with this thing in the future. if you are trying to haul it in a station wagon, buy small and sell it off for 40% of what you bought it for when you are done.

 

if you want a little bigger/more flexible, the mixwiz/PRX combo is a good idea, or even the 515 eons are worth looking at.

 

on the low end, look ate stagepass and passport.

 

subs really arent required for vocals/guitar/keys in a church/picnic/informal setting.

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If you only knew how many times the bass player has asked if he should bring his other cab. The man loves his Ampegs and has two of those 6 x 10 cabs with the wheels already installed.

 

 

ah ok. Well he should definitely use a 610 cabinet. There shouldnt be any need to put him through the PA, that will give you a bit more headroom

...

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is this system something you will keep and use in the future or a system to tour with once and just get the performers a little boost?


either case does not need at $15k rock system. your original plan is not appetizing to me personally, but it really depends on what you plan to do with this thing in the future. if you are trying to haul it in a station wagon, buy small and sell it off for 40% of what you bought it for when you are done.


if you want a little bigger/more flexible, the mixwiz/PRX combo is a good idea, or even the 515 eons are worth looking at.


on the low end, look ate stagepass and passport.


subs really arent required for vocals/guitar/keys in a church/picnic/informal setting.

 

 

I plan to keep what I buy, as long as I am playing with this group we will use it. If I move on, or this group splits, I will still use this system for family and charity events, even if I just run a cd player through it. The passport stuff is what we are trying to avoid, in our experience it just doesn't keep up with even a quiet drummer and is very limited in mic inputs (at least the models we have borrowed).

 

The last community picnic we played at we were able to borrow some powered Mackies of some kind, had no monitors, and it was bad. About 250 people showed up and in spite of the PA failures, the sponsors of the event asked us to come back each month the picnic is held (summer months only). Of course we played for free representing our church, so maybe the sponsor was thrilled to get us for no cost?

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I plan to keep what I buy, as long as I am playing with this group we will use it. If I move on, or this group splits, I will still use this system for family and charity events, even if I just run a cd player through it. The passport stuff is what we are trying to avoid, in our experience it just doesn't keep up with even a quiet drummer and is very limited in mic inputs (at least the models we have borrowed).


The last community picnic we played at we were able to borrow some powered Mackies of some kind, had no monitors, and it was bad. About 250 people showed up and in spite of the PA failures, the sponsors of the event asked us to come back each month the picnic is held (summer months only). Of course we played for free representing our church, so maybe the sponsor was thrilled to get us for no cost?

 

 

i see. this helps me understand where you are coming from and what you are trying to do. i as well do not like anything mackie, especially the 450's

 

if your looking to spend about ~$3k i'd say you are good to go with what has been suggested here. if you try and go much above audiences of 250-400 you are likely better renting a system and a tech but for the smaller crowds you will do well and have around 50% resale value after a couple years (if you choose that)

 

you may have already said, but what are you hauling this stuff in?

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you may have already said, but what are you hauling this stuff in?

 

Ford Fusion. :facepalm:

 

I used to have two of the JBL JRX 2x15 towers and a Samson TM300 powered mixer with six channels putting out 150 watts per side. I would have gladly used this stuff but it was stolen over a year ago from my storage facility. Once it was stolen I sold my truck and figured I would never need a PA again. Wish I hadn't done that. Now that I need one, I don't want to make the same mistakes I made with the first PA. I also plan to keep this stuff at my house to prevent theft.

 

I measured the trunk and know I can get two of the JBL or Yorkville 15s in there. I have had three twelve inch montiors in the trunk before helping a buddy out so I know I could probably buy four of the PRX612s and haul those as well.

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Maybe the NX55P's are a better option than the NX750P's. I've used both and the NX55P's might be better for vocals. They also have a fair bit of bottom for a 12" cab.

 

The NX55P's would also be much easier to polemount. The NX750's have what amounts to an ergonomic design flaw (my opinion) which makes them somewhat difficult to carry and set on sticks. In other words the handles are in the wrong place.

 

Anyway besides your FOH, the main thing is to get a decent board with which you can become faimiliar, AND that you won't outgrow anytime soon. The MixWiz fits that bill. If you upgrade your tops, you can move your NX55P's to monitor duty but still use the same board - no new learning curve.

 

EQ's and all that jazz can come if and when needed.

 

As a side note, I've done jobs for 200 people with my nine piece band, with just two YX15P's (less power and max SPL than the NX55P's). The gigs went okay. Should I, would I have wanted more? Yes of course I should/could have used more, BUT it came off okay.

 

There's a big difference between what's nice to have and what you can actually get away with. Say maybe $12,000 :)

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Vaughn4380,

 

I've got to agree with the recommendations regarding the AudioEast Package #4 . This would be a great set-up for the application you described. I bought exactly the same set-up when I started (including MixWiz3), and I've slowly built it up over time. I now own four NX55p's, four EF500pb's, and a pair of LS720p subs.

 

That #4 package sounds good, it's easy to lug around (even in a car), and it won't break the bank. Very reliable and well supported products. Three years into this stuff, and I'm still completely happy with the decision I made. :thu:

 

Remember, stands, mics, cables, snakes, D.I.'s etc, will add substantially to that initial cost.

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this is absurd. your original system idea fits better than this.

 

 

Why is it absurd? It's way over his budget, but it's not out of line for a band of that size.

 

The sales guy was in a tough (maybe impossible) spot. The OP's budget (and transportation) is really way too small for what he's trying to do. What is a "Gymnasium event for 200 kids"? I never rolled into a 200-person club with anything less than 4732's on top of 2x18 subs.

 

The salesman has the option to sell him a system that is in-budget, but inadequate for anything but the smallest gigs. He runs the risk of having a customer accept his advice only to grow frustrated once he finds that the system he bought doesn't do what he wanted it to do (regardless of what he told the salesman he wanted it to do). That customer than goes to "the other guy" next time he wants to buy something.

 

Or, the salesman can say, "Well if you want to do it right, you gotta spend $15K"

 

-Dan.

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Why is it absurd?

 

 

did i miss something? is this a rock band, or not?

 

i thought i kept reading 5 vocals and two or three instruments, small church parties.

 

i dodnt see the need for such a large mixer or any subs. why not toss in a heritage monitor console as well? a few klark teknic eq's too?

 

in fact i think a mixwiz is overkill (but a good board). the difference between moving around a mixwix and moving a GL2400 is substantial. if i am not a paid sound provider i would rather not haul around a board that size for free.

 

then what do you haul all that in? the difference in size between the absurd system and others mentioned is, the absurd system takes up a LOT more space.

 

well hell lets sell him the space shuttle to haul it in.

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