Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 well, i've been reading this forum for about a year, scrolling back through teh archives ..just to learn all i can. I am wondering if anyone has worked with a sound engineer who is blind or seriously visually impaired, and how did they cope with digital boards like the new studiolive, or allen heath ilive..or with the digital speaker management..dbx driverack, peavey vsx26 i think the model number is? I'm asking because i am totally blind and am really curious to know where i'll be in ten years time. I love knobs and sliders, but feel like i'll be limiting myself over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 i've often wondered about this but i think it would be very challenging to use this type of equipment if blind - i've never seen any of it available with a braille overlay or even the real estate to place braille. is there another method besides memorization to learn where knobs are? i know i use my eyes heavily in this operation, not only for adjustments but in basic on the fly troubleshooting as well. at least with analog mixers there are no layers to navigate so the knobs always stay the same. i'm not sure how the layer navigation would work with a non visual feedback interface. what mixers are you using now? also, how on earth does one set levels without visual meters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 also, how on earth does one set levels without visual meters? The 2 holes on the side of your head. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Can't you smell the gain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 The 2 holes on the side of your head. -Dan. yeah, those can easily tell me if a channel is +54db past clip before i bring up the fader. good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 setting levels is pretty easy, you learn the basic area the gain knob likes to be with each mic you own, start there and go up or down..plus you pfl it and listen for clipping ..but thats unrelyable because the singer..drummer, etc arent consistant. Currently own an allen heath gl2000 24, peavey 701 r small gig board, yes i love it, and roomates mackie 1604 vlz. When i get a new piece f gear, i go through its knobs and buttons with a roomate or my cool neighbor, and basicly just have to memorize it. Usually with an eq, or channel strip on a mixer, things are pretty self explanatory..sends grouped, eq grouped...etc etc. As for trouble shooting, keep a well maintained system and its not as big of an issue, but for what cant be avoided, use cmmon sound sense, think back to past situations, and be quick on your feet! Also simple things like a cable tester that beeps instead of flashing a led light help a whole lot..ee friend built that for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Nothing that can't be done with a lot of effort and good memory. I would think that analog gear with hardware controls would be advantagous in this instance, knobs stay put and do the same thing every time (consistency). It makes mixing from memory easier. Having a helper is another option, one that would free you up from much of the set-up work and allow you to concentrate on mixing. This is common with large systems, where a system engineer is responsible for getting things ready to go for the mix engineer. I teach a blind guy horseback riding, and with just a little bit of help describing his surroundings and where we are on the trail, the riding part is no problem at all. There are a lot of successful blind musicians and while I haven't encountered a blind engineer I have no doubt that it could be done without too much trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Never really thought about it. I have the StudioLive and my first thoughts are, if totally blind, that seemingly wouldn't work well. However, for some impairments I'd think the StudioLive would be extremely beneficial. The board is lit up like a Christmas tree with large colored buttons with dedicated colors for what's active. It also have a full meter bridge with brightly colored LED's that also double as the tone and processing indicators. There is small LCD screen that has some functionality, but for most shows I don't ever do anything where I'd need to get into the menus and screens. As I write this I really can't think of another board better for someone who has vision impairments. Even the processing would be much more usable than having things vertically mounted with dark sliders and knobs. Frankly, it was part of the reason I chose the board. I needed it to be very easy to use and quick to make changes. The large controls, bright lights, lack of layers and everything on the vertical surface is what sold me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 aged, blind musicians are as you say pretty common, i too am a drmmer, and do a lot of hip hop studio work with my yamaha motif..a bit stereotypical? sure but who cares lol. I've been doing enough sound work to classify myself as a sound engineer now though..working different venues in l.a and a small outdoor three day festival up your end of the state on a ranch..that was a fun weekend. I can do most wiring..stagebox end of the snake, amp racks etc..you cant really put xlr cables in backwards so as long as i know the input/output on the crossover or passthroguh on teh amps..everything goes fine. I'm still trying to figure out how to do the board end fantail on a snake..thinking about elco connectors because those big round ones scare me for relyability/repair sake. I'd be really curious to use a studio live, i dont mind digital buttons and controls..i use a roland vs2480 in the studio with moderate success minus loading projects and the like..and can memorize a lot of button sequences if i have to..and if its not layered that means i cant think i'm in a menu and be in a totally different one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Scodiddly Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Years ago I saw a little video clip of Ray Charles mixing in the studio, and he made some comment about how he can hear when things are distorting so it was no big deal to not be able to see the meters. I wonder what kind of finger-feedback stuff is being done these days. I read that somebody built a mechanical braille "display" that would do a line of text, but never got all the bugs worked out. Maybe something that could have a voltage differential between two little adjacent spots for replacing LED's? It's possible to make motorized faders do a sort of feedback, like Digico consoles where you can have the center point on a graphic EQ (when mapped to the faders) a little "sticky". Makes it feel like a mechanical detent, but is done in software. Maybe something with a bank-of-faders controller that does that and can be mapped to be the virtual channel strip? I think setting levels would be easy - either just do it by ear with a standard headphone level setting (bring up the gain until it sounds loud enough), or maybe against a calibrated tone as a reference to a particular dB level. A lot of mixing digitally is just keeping track of where the @#$@#$ you are, so I don't think that layers would be any special problem for a blind person. Maybe you could have a little infrared light that shines on your face when you're in the second layer or something as a reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 I would guess someone must make something like a dyno labeler but that punches braille. Make some stick-ons for the layer buttons and view buttons and that would help. Number the channels that way, etc. You couldn't label everything but you could make a big dent in the complexity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 what spauned the idea for this topic was trying to use a driverack in a club earlier today..and then realizing it was hopeless. Lady bar tender learned a lot about sound..or a lot of terms she'd never heard before, and we got the system dialed in that way but it was something i'm guessing i'll run into a lot in the coming years. Its kind of funny, people will hand me an ipod and say, play this after our set..and i just smile and say..how? Ipods have no feedback at all to what your doing, and usually they just go blank for a second..then get it and we laugh and figure out a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Its kind of funny, people will hand me an ipod and say, play this after our set..and i just smile and say..how? Ipods have no feedback at all to what your doing, and usually they just go blank for a second..then get it and we laugh and figure out a solution. I go to check-out counters... and hand the checker-out person a credit card when the order's been rang up... and they point at this fuzzy grey blob and direct me to "swipe my card there" "where?" "there!" I usually fumble around a lot... and then start to dig out some cash... and drop a bunch of stuff on the ground... it's usually a mess... I'm an embarassment out in public. Not only don't I automatically know how the electronic thing of the day works... but I can't see the damn thing, much less read the fine print of the non-existant operating instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 i once overdrafted my bank account doing something akin to that..thought you were supposed to slide card, enter pin, hit enter, wait a sec, hit enter twice..first to bypass cashback..then second to confirm total amount..wallgreens machine was different. Hit enter the second time and you get a 20 dollar cashback, then the third time, and you confirm you want that 20 dollar cashback.. The bank was cool about it though and i just gave em back the 20 and they eaved the fee but this seems like a very nice way for companies to make money on the..well..blind or scatterbrained lol. On a thread related note, anyone know how to do time delay for tops in teh analog world? im sure it was done quite frequently "back in the day" but now all i see is driverack this and driverack that..im not giving up my urei 5545? foh eqs just yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Interesting.... I'm pretty near sighted myself and have to squint to read my driverack. I've often wondered about the efficacy of digital boards for myself. How do you interface with forums, emails and so on. Braille keyboard I'm guessing, but I'm wondering if there are any universal translators or type readers out there. And by the way I hate those pin pads for the bank and credit cards. I too am starting to just pay cash, especially now that they've got the new ones that are even harder to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 On a thread related note, anyone know how to do time delay for tops in the analog world? im sure it was done quite frequently "back in the day"We moved the tops back to match the subs. 30 years ago the delays were tape or them new fangled "bucket brigade" analog delays but the latter were pretty lo-fi at longer delays. I still have one I used to use to do a 20ms delay to double vocals live that wasn't too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 i use a program called jaws for windows made by www.freedomscientific.com which reads whatever i scroll over with the arrow keys so posts just read like lines, probably how you see them too. Also the tab button becomes very useful for going through links quickly. No braille keyboard, i touch type just like most folk, learned at a young age im averagng 85 words per minute..when i concentrate which is almost never lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 spottyaudio, looks like a cool program. RoadRanger mentioned moving the tops back. I played a few places where I've moved the subs up and it seemed to help - probably my imagination, but I was happier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members spottyaudio Posted September 23, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 well my delaying the tops was more to do with horn loaded subs, or delaying the subs and tops for lining up with the backline..i just wanted to do it for experimental purposes. I've done some larger events and we never found the need or want to do it but i want to see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 I have a Roland SDE-1000 digital delay that would probably work for that purpose. It has an input for a pedal that you can tap out the delay time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Never really thought about it. I have the StudioLive and my first thoughts are, if totally blind, that seemingly wouldn't work well. However, for some impairments I'd think the StudioLive would be extremely beneficial. The board is lit up like a Christmas tree with large colored buttons with dedicated colors for what's active. It also have a full meter bridge with brightly colored LED's that also double as the tone and processing indicators. There is small LCD screen that has some functionality, but for most shows I don't ever do anything where I'd need to get into the menus and screens. I really like my StudioLive, but it does suck for setting up outdoor shows. Even with a tarp overhead, the ambiant light will make it so you can't see the LCD screen and renders all of those colored buttons useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philw44 Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 Makes me think hard about the things i take for granted. Massive respect for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 My friend uses Jaws and it seems pretty good for getting the job done. Regarding delays, there were digital delays for time offsetting done all the way back in the middle 70's, I just pulled one out of service a couple of years ago. For example, the MXR-224 was one reasonably retail oriented option. There were also good analog delays, if you only needed 20-30mSec, the audio quality could be quite good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted September 23, 2010 Members Share Posted September 23, 2010 There were also good analog delays, if you only needed 20-30mSec, the audio quality could be quite good.Yes, the one I have is a modified guitar pedal and sounds fine with the clock cranked up to get it down to 20ms - think it originally only went down to 100ms or so ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author Craig Vecchione Posted September 23, 2010 CMS Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Spottyaudio, to get back to your original question of using digital boards and DSP's, perhaps the ones that have a PC interface would be of use to you. You could possibly use Jaws to read the screens and manipulate the settings via the PC. I worked with a blind coworker for many years. He lost vision very early in life and had no vision memory. It was very interesting learning how he did things and how his thought process works. Dude was cool as {censored} too...owned a powerboat, rode a motorcycle (!!!), did car repairs, and he also DJ'd for years with all analog gear. For work we also used Jaws, and customized a lot of the applications we had so he could read and work them easier with Jaws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.