Members Zooey Posted August 12, 2019 Members Share Posted August 12, 2019 Beethoven's Pathetique sonota is ruined for me because I hear Billy Joel lyrics over it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chordite Posted August 12, 2019 Author Members Share Posted August 12, 2019 I wanted to do a piece for a film using Widor's Toccata and discovered it was still in copyright due to a quirk of French copyright law and can't be used without paying the heirs.(death+70 years+all the years France was at war ).For someone born in 1844 (35 years before the cowboy era!) this is bonkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted August 15, 2019 Members Share Posted August 15, 2019 Beethoven's Pathetique sonota is ruined for me because I hear Billy Joel lyrics over it now. "Oh Bwunhilde, you're so wuvwee". This is what comes to me when I listen to Tannhauser. Forever etched. And of course, "Kill Da Wabbit". It is funny. And perhaps Wagner and the whole German mysticism thing had it coming. But there's just no going back once something like that has been done. I wouldn't say that it's ruined it for me, but there's no getting around checking in with that bit of lampooning at first, then I can for the most part put it aside. Maybe 'serious music' is taken too seriously. Maybe nothing is sacred when comedy, or $ signs, or hubris are on the prowl. A stain is a stain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted August 16, 2019 Members Share Posted August 16, 2019 I dearly love symphonies, especially the dark, brooding ones by the Eastern Europeans and Russians (Dovrak, Suk, Smetena, Prokofiev, Tchaikovsky, Shostakovitch, etc.) I also prefer them from Romantic era to present day. For me music starts with Eroica. I've heard most of the world's most famous symphony orchestras as they toured the USA and also many of them in their homeland. It's one of my blisses, and luckily my wife feels the same way. We even planned our visit to the Czech Republic to coincide with the Czech Philharmonic playing Suk's "Asrael", a piece never played here in South Florida, and it was grand!!! You can't see us in the audience, but we were there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFoFxa7Hc04 Once someone puts words to an instrumental piece of music of any kind, it's hard to hear the music without the words. But often when I hear new music, I don't hear the words as words, but just as articulation. I'm too busy listening to the music and what all the instruments are playing and how they relate to the whole to be concerned with what the singer is singing about. I'm weird that way. I guess if you are going to steal, steal from one of the masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted August 16, 2019 Members Share Posted August 16, 2019 I guess if you are going to steal, steal from one of the masters. (That would be the 'ol incite right there.) Or don't. Just admit to yourself that you got nuthin and get out of the way. Go mow lawns or something. Go steal from Ms. Perry. You just have to do a better job of it than her team of *ace* songwriters did. Pbbb. That's what's surprising to me actually. They could have changed a few more notes in that keyboard line, maybe use a clearly different sound, add another word to the shout and place it a measure earlier/later, change up the kick a little bit more and it wouldn't have made a hill o' beans difference to the success of the track. We just wouldn't be having this conversation in a thread with her name attached to it. But please do refrain from marring great pieces of music for years to come. If you can't steal and disguise it with some degree of aplomb don't steal at all. And maybe someday Eric Carmen will be long forgotten and Rachmaninoff can be enjoyed clean and free of the taint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted August 17, 2019 Members Share Posted August 17, 2019 <...snip...> And maybe someday Eric Carmen will be long forgotten and Rachmaninoff can be enjoyed clean and free of the taint. I'm betting that Rachmaninoff will be remembered long after Eric Carmen will be forgotten. Growing up playing commercial music but having an ear in both jazz and classical, quotes are a sign of homage. Dvorak even quoted Beethoven's 9 in Dvorak's 9. So many jazz improvisations contain quotes from other jazz or pop songs. If the quote or borrowing doesn't affect the income of the original, the copyright should not go in favor of the person doing the quoting. Blurred Lines did not take one penny of sales away from Marvin Gaye's estate. Katy Perry's song did not take a penny away from Flame. They have corrupted the reason for copyright law in the first place. But that's what we do in America. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RockViolin Posted August 17, 2019 Members Share Posted August 17, 2019 I'm betting that Rachmaninoff will be remembered long after Eric Carmen will be forgotten. Growing up playing commercial music but having an ear in both jazz and classical, quotes are a sign of homage. Dvorak even quoted Beethoven's 9 in Dvorak's 9. So many jazz improvisations contain quotes from other jazz or pop songs. If the quote or borrowing doesn't affect the income of the original, the copyright should not go in favor of the person doing the quoting. Blurred Lines did not take one penny of sales away from Marvin Gaye's estate. Katy Perry's song did not take a penny away from Flame. They have corrupted the reason for copyright law in the first place. But that's what we do in America. Insights and incites by Notes Me too! Yes, my ear has been here and there as well. It's perhaps a fine line between a quote that tips towards a wee bit of a borrow which just 'accidentally' strays into pilfering that then waltzes right into full on robbery. But, I'm confident I can tell the difference. And as I said earlier, there's a difference between an homage quote and theft...or the complete bastardization of an entire lengthy melody as with "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again". "the copyright should not go in favor of the person doing the quoting." Not sure I follow. Do you perhaps mean it should not go in favor of the quoted? Anyway, it's more about the pretense that an idea was conjured up honestly and the taking of credit for it than who made or lost money...to me. And the $ determined by the court to be paid by the perp is more punishment than it is compensation for $ presumably lost by the plaintiff...to me. Rachmaninoff didn't lose any money either. That doesn't change one bit the degree to which his music was stolen. Piles of money should have gone to his descendants though the crime didn't rob them directly, just because, just to punish the artist, management, record company that took part in creating that abomination. If Rachmaninoff had at least been credited and thanked for the use of HIS beautiful melody, well, maybe I wouldn't be such a big meanie about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted August 17, 2019 Members Share Posted August 17, 2019 <...> "the copyright should not go in favor of the person doing the quoting." Not sure I follow. Do you perhaps mean it should not go in favor of the quoted?<...> Sorry. Due to extensive editing before I posted, it ended up saying exactly the opposite of what I meant. Sometimes things get past my inner proofreader. No, the person doing a short quote should not be punished. That's what I meant. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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