This can replace a music stand on stage...

[Telecruiser]

 

I'm coming to grips with the reality that memory is a finite resource.

 

 

Check out my post #11:thu:

[Reson8tor]

I don't have a knee-jerk aversion to music stands, but as others mentioned, it depends on how they're used, especially in smaller groups or duo/solo performance. It's one thing for a horn section to be reading, because ther will be a singer or someone else fronting the band, and interacting with the audience. Its something else entirely for a solo folksinger to be losing eye contact with the audience for extended periods during a show. If I was playing a solo or duo act, I would try very hard to memorize. An exception would be something like a restaurant "potted plant" gig, where you're playing quiet jazz off a fakebook in the corner, and the audience isn't expecting much eye contact or interaction.

 

On the tech side... I've used a Kindle (the larger one) for the past year to display a set list, and for "reminder" charts during band rehearsals. At the gig, I only use it for set lists. It lacks the illumination of an iPad, so it needs an accessory light in a dark room, but to compensate for that, it has phenomenal battery life. Since it doesn't light up, it's nice and inconspicuous when placed on the floor, or a side table.

 

A few things to consider, if you go this route:

 

 

Anyway, just some thoughts based on very limited use of this idea. I think we'll see more of this, but it's not without some drawbacks.

[335BoB]

I don't have a knee-jerk aversion to music stands, but as others mentioned, it depends on how they're used, especially in smaller groups or duo/solo performance. It's one thing for a horn section to be reading, because ther will be a singer or someone else fronting the band, and interacting with the audience. Its something else entirely for a solo folksinger to be losing eye contact with the audience for extended periods during a show. If I was playing a solo or duo act, I would try very hard to memorize. An exception would be something like a restaurant "potted plant" gig, where you're playing quiet jazz off a fakebook in the corner, and the audience isn't expecting much eye contact or interaction.

 

On the tech side... I've used a Kindle (the larger one) for the past year to display a set list, and for "reminder" charts during band rehearsals. At the gig, I only use it for set lists. It lacks the illumination of an iPad, so it needs an accessory light in a dark room, but to compensate for that, it has phenomenal battery life. Since it doesn't light up, it's nice and inconspicuous when placed on the floor, or a side table.

 

A few things to consider, if you go this route:

 

 

 

What a STUPID debate! You've got to be kidding, right? So your only problem is that if it's not "noticeable" (by using a Kindle and a footswitch) then it's OK? Meanwhile if you don't really "know" the music you shouldn't even be performing? I'm confused. Which is it? Because maybe I'll invest in a Kindle or Notepad or a Teleprompter but then I don't want to be accused that I still shouldn't be performing in the first place.

 

Just as there are arrogant, self-righteous, high and mighty people in this world, there are also those that can't remember lyrics. I'm guessing that both groups just can't help themselves.

[Reson8tor]

 

What a STUPID debate! You've got to be kidding, right? So your only problem is that if it's not "noticeable" (by using a Kindle and a footswitch) then it's OK?

 

 

No, I was pointing out some considerations for the type of performer -- horn section, keyboard, potted plant jazz soloist, etc. -- who *isn't* normally expected to interact much with the audience.

 

 

Meanwhile if you don't really "know" the music you shouldn't even be performing?

 

 

I didn't say that. I said (or tried to say) is that it's a different thing if it's your primary job, as the front man in a band, to "sell" the act to the audience. I think that requires a fair amount of eye contact, so the audience feels you care more about them, than about a sheet of paper, or guitar fretboard, or keyboard during the act.

 

 

I'm confused. Which is it? Because maybe I'll invest in a Kindle or Notepad or a Teleprompter but then I don't want to be accused that I still shouldn't be performing in the first place.

 

 

No, in terms of audience interaction and selling your performance, I don't think that will be any better than reading lyrics off paper on a music stand. And I didn't say you shouldn't be performing in the first place. These are just my opinions, and that particular call is yours to make, based on what type of audiences you expect to attract. There are some situations where you don't have to work as hard to connect with an audience and "close the sale." Every situation is different.

[335BoB]

 

Check out my post #11:thu:

 

 

Ok, Ok!!! I take some Ginko Biloba for a couple of weeks and then get back to this thread because without this miracle herb I am doomed for sure.:poke:

[jwlussow]

Ok, Ok!!! I take some Ginko Biloba for a couple of weeks and then get back to this thread because without this miracle herb I am doomed for sure.:poke:

 

Actually, Ginko really works great. Anything is better then using a crutch to keep a wall between you and the audience.

[StratGuy22]

There's nothing wrong with music stands I suppose. There's also little league baseball, slowpitch, beer league, etc up to the major leagues. I prefer to stay in a league that doesn't use music stands. I'm not in a jazz band, or a band that pulls random requests out of a hat. I'm in a band that does the best job we can, and for us, that means no music stands.

 

I personally wouldn't play in a band that used music stands, because to me it means we need more practice.

 

That's just me. Like I said, there are different levels, it's all good.

[SpaceNorman]

I don't enjoy a meal any less knowing that the chef referred to his cookbook while making it.

[GigMan]

I don't enjoy a meal any less knowing that the chef referred to his cookbook while making it.

 

Excellent quote, SpaceNorman!

 

I played a restaurant gig last night, trio gig - bass, gtr. & me on mainly keys and acoustic/electr. gtr. for a few songs also - w/a band that consists of the leader and about 18 other guys. The leader books the gigs and picks 3 or 4 guys for each gig out of his stable of 18. This way different guys get to play w/different "other" guys, even two different units can be out on the same night in different parts of NJ, it's a win-win situation. The band never rehearses, just goes and does the gigs, w/whichever guys are booked for the specific jobs. Guess what? They use music stands. Well, some do some don't - I did last night.

 

I also play as a full-time member of a wedding band - w/music stands. I also do occasional pickup gigs for whoever calls me - whether band, duo, trio, or solo gigs - music stands can be seen at any of them.

 

Now I am a keyboard player who sings some leads and lots of harmonies - I am not a true Front Person/Lead Singer. I do agree that the Front Person/Lead Singer should know their lyrics & song forms/arrangements and should NOT have their eyes buried in their book - hell, ALL THEY DO IS SING! (as opposed to us instrumentalists who are singing and playing at the same time) but I still think it's ok for them to have the book for an occasional glance or even just for psychological support. Sometimes I don't even look at my book but it helps to know it's there - strange but true.

 

In a true "Rock Band" setting I guess I can agree that it's just not "cool" to have music stands cluttering up the stage... but for someone like me, who freelances and jumps around from band to band as a hired gun when needed - it's just a part of life, having a music stand if front of me.

[ckcondon]

I used to have a problem with music stands in cover bands. I was spoiled by a singer who had a great memory and could ingest new material quickly and never need a cheat sheet.

He was pretty rare and I've found that a lot of guys who need to pull from a 60+ song setlist need a little help here and there.

My current singer needs his book, that's ok with me. The girls dancing up front don't seem to have a problem with it either.

If the band is good, no one but other musicians care about music stands.

[SpaceNorman]

In a true "Rock Band" setting I guess I can agree that it's just not "cool" to have music stands cluttering up the stage... but for someone like me, who freelances and jumps around from band to band as a hired gun when needed - it's just a part of life, having a music stand if front of me.

 

Sounds like our musical situations are similar.

 

While I don't use a stand per se (I "hide" my charts on top of my instrument) - I still think of myself as a "stand user" simply because not everything on my collective playlist is committed 100% to memory. Playing in multiple bands that play 1-2 times a month and each with playlists of 100+ songs makes being ready and able to play everything on command - and solely from memory a tall order. Kudos to those who can do it ... but it's certainly not a litmus test by which I judge the quality of any player.

 

Even great chefs refer to the cookbook every now and then!

[335BoB]

Glad to see this thread get back on track at least a little bit. I think a little disgretion could have avoided some "put-downs". Just say that you don't like the Ipad or music stands and prefer seeing musicians perform without them. To say we don't belong performing goes a bit too far for this discussion, don't you think?

[6Imzadi]

I am happy the OP posted the link for the stand iPad holder. i would use it for the musician to hold their "monitor console". Then, their monitor wants would be in their hands. (reference: software audio console)

[madjack]

I used to be one of those who hated seeing a music stand onstage, but then my work was all done with bands doing mostly one-two nighters and memorizing 70-80 songs was no problem. Now I am in my middle 50s and have been playing mostly with house-band situations for the last 6 years. I now use a music stand. Keeping the lyrics, chords, patch configs, etc. for 300 songs in my head just ain't gonna happen.

[jwlussow]

Didn't mean to start a heated debate. It was a post to show a new high tech way to solve a problem and also a very useful toy for musicians.

 

It is a pet peeve of mine to see a rock cover band where the singer has a music stand in front of them reading the entire gig. For jazz, acoutsic, wedding bands I have no problem.

 

The possible uses of this iPad stand are incredible. You can simply use it as a setlist holder, electronic music stand, audio controller, DMX controller, electronic requests during the show or just watch a movie during slow nights. Lots of potential with this unit.

[rodclement]

I like the gadget!

 

I am a singer and frontman, have been since I was 16 years old and I have a serious issue memorizing numbers and sequences so I always have my lyrics, in a book, on a stand, on stage with me. Has it ever kept me from engaging the audience, no. Has it allowed me to perform in front of audiences of thousands of people, yes...

 

A music stand is like any other thing on stage, it is noticable if you use it as a crutch, if you hide behind it. If I have it there to stare for changes, or for peace of mind, than it's a tool.

 

I have heard this ridiculous argument so many times! I have even lost a gig with a band because they tough I was lazy and didn't want to learn the music. I went on to play festivals and they went on to play in their basement.

 

There is a big difference between a lazy musician, and one that has a limitation of some sort, I work harder on singing well and delivering a fun night than most singers I know, I even taught myself percussion so I can add to my duos so please stop generalizing all people that use stands just because you have a pre-conceived idea of what it means.

 

Rod

[W. M. Hellinger]

 

I don't enjoy a meal any less knowing that the chef referred to his cookbook while making it.

 

 

Humm... good point... and to that point: What little I know about cooking suggests to me that when there's variables involved, "going by the book" could result in less than desired results... depending on the ingredients, food preparation infrastructure, and pallet of the dinner guests. If everything's fairly consistent, then going by the book will probably work out fine.

 

I

[GigMan]

I like the gadget! I am a singer and frontman, have been since I was 16 years old and I have a serious issue memorizing numbers and sequences so I always have my lyrics, in a book, on a stand, on stage with me. Has it ever kept me from engaging the audience, no. Has it allowed me to perform in front of audiences of thousands of people, yes... A music stand is like any other thing on stage, it is noticable if you use it as a crutch, if you hide behind it. If I have it there to stare for changes, or for peace of mind, than it's a tool. I have heard this ridiculous argument so many times! I have even lost a gig with a band because they tough I was lazy and didn't want to learn the music. I went on to play festivals and they went on to play in their basement. There is a big difference between a lazy musician, and one that has a limitation of some sort, I work harder on singing well and delivering a fun night than most singers I know, I even taught myself percussion so I can add to my duos so please stop generalizing all people that use stands just because you have a pre-conceived idea of what it means. Rod

 

Great post, Rod nailed it - at least for us in the "who cares if you have a music stand or not" camp.

[Zeromus-X]

We did a Halloween show a couple years ago where the singer needed the lyrics because they weren't songs we typically played. Hooked up a laptop on the side of the stage to a 24-inch LCD monitor that looked like a wedge on the ground, and he used a little thumb-operated mouse on the mic stand.

 

I guess that's the old-school version of this.

[GigMan]

 

Humm... good point... and to that point: What little I know about cooking suggests to me that when there's variables involved, "going by the book" could result in less than desired results... depending on the ingredients, food preparation infrastructure, and pallet of the dinner guests. If everything's fairly consistent, then going by the book will probably work out fine.   I

[Jealousblues]

yeah, I hate those unprofessional symphony guys with their music stands

;-)

[Jealousblues]

fwiw when you work weddings having a music stand helps for keeping the itinerary, having the names of people you introduce and it can help people making speaches with their notes if they have any

[jwlussow]

Still not buying the music stand with cover band argument. I've seen dozens of cover bands that hide behind stands. I've yet to see stands on stage when they are not obtrusive and used as a crutch. I suppose it is possible. I've just never seen it myself.

 

As far as the chef. Would I really go out and spend money of food that is being made out of a cookbook? No way. Ever. Why pay him to cook something I can do just by buying a book? If I knew he was using a book to cook my dinner, it would effect how I feel about the restaurant. I prefer my chefs to know what they are doing. They should know what they are creating and how to create it without the help of a cookbook. The chef that needs a cookbook is using that cookbook as a crutch, just like the cover bands I've personally seen that use stands on stage.

[W. M. Hellinger]

On the contrary - the fact that a party band is faced w/TONS of variables on any given gig means they are even more in need of having a book to refer to on occasion & that books lives, of course - on a music stand! ie, at any given moment a guest or bar patron could come up and request X, Y or Z song or "Can you play Gloria 'cause it's our friend Gloria's birthday?" or "Do you know Sweet Melissa by the Allman Bros. for my girlfriend, there's a $20 in it for youse guys..." etc. - - is all the more reason to have a book of stuff for such occasions. Granted, the 40-60 songs in the bands heavy rotation playlist should be memorized and they should NOT be having their heads buried in the music stand for those tunes... but it's the oldies, odd requests or rarely played but still cool tunes that the book is actually handy for.

Yer joking, right?

 

I have never seen, worked with, or played in a party band who plays to their music stands that could successfully field a not on the set-list request. Never, ever.

 

Also: I have never successfully ordered a meal or dish off the menu from a cook who cooks by their cookbook.

 

never.

 

Last night we played 4 requested songs that were not on our repertoire lists... we'd never played them as a group, and I doubt that any of us had ever played them. 3 out of the 4 were... well... pure magic. The 4th... was cut short as we just didn't have it in our collective heads. The other 3 were added to our repertoire... I hope we can do them as well sometime in the future as we did them cold.

 

The only member of our band that fell flat on their face during the impromptus... was the guy who's been playing to his music stand his entire professional career (3 decades +)... and he's without question the only one who's never gotten better at his craft... I don't know why we keep him around... kind of a Klingon who's really good at basically being a machine (who

[jwlussow]

 

fwiw when you work weddings having a music stand helps for keeping the itinerary, having the names of people you introduce and it can help people making speaches with their notes if they have any

 

 

I agree 100%. Wedding bands and jazz groups using fake books are different then the weekend warrior cover band at the local watering hole.