Got to check out an SAC mixer

[Dogoth]

Strangly enough, this guy was using it via a split, to record (SAC is the live use version of the SAW DAW (was that redundant? :-)).

 

I was impressed. Granted the guy was a dealer for turn key systems so his rig was setup & tweaked properly (nice to have a 22" multi point touch screen). Over all though it looked REALLY intuitive and controlable (GUI is EVERYTHING in SR). It would have been nicer if the guy (dealer) would have shut up and just let me check it out (one of those folks that :blah: WAY too much), but I liked the gear none the less.

 

If in the next few years these prove to be reliable (important point here), They could easily become some serious competition for the LS9 & the Aviom systems (and possibly some higher end boards) due to their greater flexability and price point.

 

Nice stuff.

[HCRobe]

I've been looking at this system for my group.

 

1. I'm a computer guy by trade and figure I can solve any computer issues myself.

 

2. I have most of the necessary hardware already.

 

3. I want 7 stereo IEM mixes. Nothing else can offer this in the price point. Even the A&H monitor board can only do 6 stereo.

 

4. Eliminate the snake and the FOH position. These systems will let you control the FOH on a laptop, wirelessly. My soundman can sit at a table in the house and mix.

 

Certainly not a pool for the uninitiated to dive into, but this IS the future of live production. Not just audio, but lighting, video, and backing tracks. All from a laptop somewhere in the house. Imagine putting on a show with arena production values in a bar? This is where it starts.

 

I have the demo and hope to be running this system after the first of the year, at first folded into a more traditional MixWiz setup, but eventually the board will stay home.

[6Imzadi]

Been wanting for awhile now.

 

1. up to 72 channels I/O in a 15 space rack

2. FOH, including all outboard, and drive costs less than m7cl alone.

3. Everyone is able to control their own monitor mix with anything they want into stereo band member owned IEM or wedges. Wedges amp separate.

4. Love the idea of having only a laptop or even the multi touch monitor to run the sound.

5. NO MORE SNAKE!

[6Imzadi]

 

Granted the guy was a dealer for turn key systems so his rig was setup & tweaked properly (nice to have a 22" multi point touch screen).

 

 

What was the price of the turn key system you saw including the SAW and monitor?

 

You have a name and phone number?

[agedhorse]

PROVIDED they prove to be reliable and convenient. I just worked with a guy who had a laptop failure and all his music was on the laptop. Fortunately, he used I-Tunes and had made backup files on his jump drive. Took a while, show started late, but we got most of the audio to work more or less ok.

[HCRobe]

PROVIDED they prove to be reliable and convenient. I just worked with a guy who had a laptop failure and all his music was on the laptop. Fortunately, he used I-Tunes and had made backup files on his jump drive. Took a while, show started late, but we got most of the audio to work more or less ok.

 

Certainly not an unwarranted concern!

[pro1-54]

Fixed

Been wanting for awhile now. 1. up to 72 channels I/O in a 15 space rack 2. FOH, including all outboard, and drive costs less than an LS9 alone. 3. Everyone is able to control their own monitor mix with anything they want into stereo band member owned IEM or wedges. Wedges amp separate. 4. Love the idea of having only a laptop or even the multi touch monitor to run the sound. 5. NO MORE SNAKE!

[6Imzadi]

Thanks for the fix.

 

Andy, these have been running sound in Las Vegas for some time now without failure due to computer. Don't know about other hardware.

[agedhorse]

 

Thanks for the fix. Andy, these have been running sound in Las Vegas for some time now without failure due to computer. Don't know about other hardware.

 

 

Maybe, I just haven't seen the proof and much of what I have seen has been pretty much what I would expect from a laptop. If my products worked like the average computer, I would be unemployed in a heartbeat.

[NUSound]

I have used SAC, my impression:

 

It's a feature-packed product targeted towards those who can't afford the correct tool for the job.

[agedhorse]

It could be the correct tool for some jobs, just doesn't seem to be the jobs I am doing. Maybe a church where a failure, or it's special needs/approach is going to be tolerated by the congregation better than a paying client.

[jasps]

I have used SAC, my impression: It's a feature-packed product targeted towards those who can't afford the correct tool for the job.

 

Interesting. I've been curious of this product for some time. The only thing I do not like that I have seen w/the software is that it cannot do external preamp adjustments and relies on a digital attenuator. It doesn't seem that different from any other digital console out there--the exception being that users can choose the hardware.

 

What I want to know is--what if you are using good hardware???... Lots of users are using the absolute cheapest stuff to get a buttload of I/O. With a good computer interface, AD/DA, and reliable control surface, would it really be any less reliable than an M7 or LS9?

[IsildursBane]

Interesting. I've been curious of this product for some time. The only thing I do not like that I have seen w/the software is that it cannot do external preamp adjustments and relies on a digital attenuator.

 

There are a handful of remote controllable mic preamps available. Does it not work with those?

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

 

What I want to know is--what if you are using good hardware???... Lots of users are using the absolute cheapest stuff to get a buttload of I/O. With a good computer interface, AD/DA, and reliable control surface, would it really be any less reliable than an M7 or LS9?

 

 

IMO, it would be less reliable if only for the simple reason that the Yamaha is a closed architecture system menaing that the operating system is closed from the outside world and that everything was designed to work together without any POTENTIAL for conflicts.

 

It's not that a laptop (or desktop) is less reliable as much as it has many opportunities to become less reliable and in practice seems to be. Too many little glitches that may not be a big issue when you are using only 1% of the resources but if you are using 50% or more then things that were previously not obvious will become painfully so.

 

Something like the SAC could become a useful tool if the outside workd was removed from the equation. Especially if a reasonable user interface was part of the package.

[jasps]

 

There are a handful of remote controllable mic preamps available. Does it not work with those? -Dan.

 

The preamps would work fine as long as you can get the signal into the computer...but the software (SAC) cannot directly control those preamps. You would have to use the preamp manufacturer software or hardware to control the preamp.

 

 

Disclaimer: I haven't used the product--that is the impression I get from the literature.

[jasps]

 

IMO, it would be less reliable if only for the simple reason that the Yamaha is a closed architecture system menaing that the operating system is closed from the outside world and that everything was designed to work together without any POTENTIAL for conflicts. It's not that a laptop (or desktop) is less reliable as much as it has many opportunities to become less reliable and in practice seems to be. Too many little glitches that may not be a big issue when you are using only 1% of the resources but if you are using 50% or more then things that were previously not obvious will become painfully so. Something like the SAC could become a useful tool if the outside workd was removed from the equation. Especially if a reasonable user interface was part of the package.

 

 

That is my opinion as well. I think the product has potential and the market is out there for 3rd party developers to sell "turn key" systems that work well together. I think that it is unlikely that rider acceptance will happen without a dedicated and proven UI.

 

I think the HOW install market is probably the most likely candidate for these systems right now. Design/Build companies may consider installing turn key systems as well--there may be some profit margin for this service. We'll see.

[NUSound]

 

IMO, it would be less reliable if only for the simple reason that the Yamaha is a closed architecture system menaing that the operating system is closed from the outside world and that everything was designed to work together without any POTENTIAL for conflicts. It's not that a laptop (or desktop) is less reliable as much as it has many opportunities to become less reliable and in practice seems to be. Too many little glitches that may not be a big issue when you are using only 1% of the resources but if you are using 50% or more then things that were previously not obvious will become painfully so.

 

 

Not to mention that digital consoles aren't just glorified computers. Each function has it's own DSP which is then controlled by the UI. If a single DSP chip goes down, you lose Dynamics processing on channels 17-21, or parametric EQ on Matrix 7, but the audio still passes. If a single chip on your SAC motherboard goes down, you lose the entire system.

[agedhorse]

Yep, the distributed processing method helps minimize the impacts of failure, though I am not sure how each manufacturer manages this in hardware... ie. how DSP and control is distributed. I suspect a (virtual) channel module or block of channels has it's own DSP that controls all of the functions and then the output section has it's own DSP's. Each section's DSP's are probably linked to the A/D and D/A processes pretty tightly also. This makes sense when considering expandability.

[6Imzadi]

eh. I still like it and am still thinking about going with it.

 

Of course, I would purpose build the computer for it and only use it for that purpose. Just like now, I don't use my presonus mixer or the recording computer to surf the web. Shouldn't be a big deal.

 

I see what you all are saying and readily agree, but IMHO, this is the direction of the future of sound for all of us and kinda want to ride the crest of the wave instead of the tail end of it like now.

[Special J]

No sir, I don't think I'll be trading in my Yamahas for this system anytime soon.

[6Imzadi]

 

No sir, I don't think I'll be trading in my Yamahas for this system anytime soon.

 

 

Funny. That's what everyone said about digital mixers when they first came out. :poke:

[HCRobe]

and digital cameras...

 

and cds...

 

and automobiles...

[agedhorse]

Funny. That's what everyone said about digital mixers when they first came out. :poke:

 

and when they first came out they were riddled with problems. Anybody remember the Mackie digital console that was going to revolutionize the audio world? It did, it turned a whole lot of guys off of digital consoles.

 

Eventually, they will get the bugs out and the user interface right if they survive. Until then, the M7 is the benchmark in the low-mid level. Wonder what QSC and Greg Mackie are going to come out with... now that could be a game changer...

[Kurd_01]

 

and when they first came out they were riddled with problems. Anybody remember the Mackie digital console that was going to revolutionize the audio world? It did, it turned a whole lot of guys off of digital consoles. :

 

 

I remember that console, mainly because I bought one and still use use it on a regular basis. I've never had any of the problems that seemed to crop up so I must be lucky.

 

It is a truely fanstasic console for the price, for me the touchscreen was king, don't get that untill you get into M7 price range. I am looking to upgrade, but only because it's unsupported by mackie now, I have more money and lack of cross hire possibilites

 

Dave

[Special J]

 

Funny. That's what everyone said about digital mixers when they first came out. :poke:

 

 

We embraced digital consoles as soon as they became price effective, profitable and reliable. We were also beta testers for some of the earliest attempts. Mixing systems such as SAC (as far as I can tell from the lit) are not all that revolutionary, and really just remind me of slightly refined versions of those early digital "virtual" consoles.