Drum Isolation

[MrJoshua]

It's an old, old song and dance, I know. We play a lot of small bars (100-200 people or so) on tiny stages, so of course we have a terrible problem with stage volume. By the time everything is up to the point where it can be heard with the drums, we're really too loud for the room. I ask the drummer to lay off and the tempo tends to drag. I don't ask the drummer to lay off and it's L-O-U-D. On top of that, one of our singers sings fairly quietly and I have a devil of a time trying to get her volume up when she's standing five feet away from the cymbals on a small stage, when she isn't even closer than that.

 

Am I stuck choosing between living with it, telling the drummer to learn to play with expression at lower volumes, or getting one of those plexiglass cages to go around the drums? Do those actually work? I would imagine the drummer would have special monitoring needs in that case, but that wouldn't be a problem.

 

Any thoughts or opinions? I'm sure everyone runs into these problems in small bars with rock bands...

[Axisplayer]

You count on monitors to minimize stage volume. If I had that problem, I would:

 

1) Tell the band to play at the lowest level they could tolerate from their amps

2) Put those instruments (without drums) back to the players through their monitors so it isn't projecting into the club (and getting their instruments louder to THEIR ears.)

3) Bring up the PA enough to level out with the drummer at FOH.

4) Get vocals over that instrument level, and if I can't, then I back down the instruments in the PA and tell the drummer to play softer until it balances with the rest of the band who is as loud as vocals (and the club) can take out front.

 

If you can't do this, then you have to live with it.

[WynnD]

The plexiglas shields do work and will reduce the other musician's sound to the drummer. (Hopefully encouraging him to back off.) I've always said that the sign of a fully mature drummer is the ability to play at low volumes and still sound good. Sounds like your drummer isn't there yet.

[Caspar]

Small bars in a power trio is what I do. The only way is to make him play softer with lighter sticks. This works fine once he gets used to it. Small stages don't do plexiglass-shields. And it looks daft.

Get a dB-meter and bring it to reherseals. Find the level that is acceptable for the bars you play and rehears at that volume. And be strict!

 

Or...

 

Get an electronic kit. And turn him down.

 

If he can't make it may be he can get a gig with some band that plays big stadiums?

[kmart]

 

I've always said that the sign of a fully mature drummer is the ability to play at low volumes and still sound good. Sounds like your drummer isn't there yet.

 

 

You don't have enough data to make that assessment.

 

What's the type/style of music? Is it jazz, pop, folk-rock? Then the drummer should be able to play at a lower volume dynamic overall, yes. But if it's aggressive & up-tempo rock, hard rock, etc....there is only so much one can physically pull back when playing drums before it sounds off/wrong given the type of music (at least).

 

Yes, one CAN play a kit so soft you can't hear it from more than a couple feet away. But it will SOUND like crap in all likelihood. Drums are almost always tuned to be struck/hit, not tapped upon. And they will react quite differently when hit below a certain velocity.

 

When non-drummers make statements like yours about "a good drummer should be able to play quietly" the one thing they almost certainly don't take into consideration is that it actually takes a totally different kind of muscle usage to pull back to extreme low volumes, and that doesn't just happen like rolling off a volume knob.

[Mogwix]

Plexiglass shields work, but introduce a new and different set of problems. Transport, stage space, and monitoring become issues. If the drummer doesn't already have his own monitor he'll need one, and ear plugs.

 

I've played shows behind those shields and I'll tell you, it's a nightmare.

 

On another note, kmart is right. I play in rock bands and I've played with drummers that are scared to hit their drums... it sounds awful. You don't need to wail on the things but you need to address them with authority. It's part of a strong drum sound and a good rockin' show. Smaller drums... birch... like 20" kick, 10 and 14" toms, snare tuned down a half step with 2-ply head and a moongel... are naturally quieter than much bigger maple drums. I use thinner cymbals because they're not so loud, and I like the smooth washy sound.

[Crownman]

If he can't play quieter without slowing down that's pretty lame.

 

But anyway, get one of the plexiglass shields. He'll hate it, bitch and moan, and whine like a baby. Chances are he'll learn to play softer once he has the gunshot snare bouncing off the glass and beating his head in. I've had the plexiglass work like that on drummers more times than I can count. If he has his own monitor mix get him to buy some IEM's.

 

For the singers, invest in some good quality mics with good feedback rejection. I suggest finding some used Crown 310A's or get some new OM7's.

[WynnD]

 

You don't have enough data to make that assessment. What's the type/style of music? Is it jazz, pop, folk-rock? Then the drummer should be able to play at a lower volume dynamic overall, yes. But if it's aggressive & up-tempo rock, hard rock, etc....there is only so much one can physically pull back when playing drums before it sounds off/wrong given the type of music (at least). Yes, one CAN play a kit so soft you can't hear it from more than a couple feet away. But it will SOUND like crap in all likelihood. Drums are almost always tuned to be struck/hit, not tapped upon. And they will react quite differently when hit below a certain velocity. When non-drummers make statements like yours about "a good drummer should be able to play quietly" the one thing they almost certainly don't take into consideration is that it actually takes a totally different kind of muscle usage to pull back to extreme low volumes, and that doesn't just happen like rolling off a volume knob.

 

 

I've had the pleasure of working with drummers who can play rock at jukebox levels and sound good. They're rare, but they open up all sorts of musical possibilities. One even sang falsetto and later lead. (My first Wife's second cousin.) The electronic sets have gotten very good. Electronic cymbals require a PA with very good high end capabilities. But I still love working with drummers who understand the full capabilities of the instrument. (Something you can't do only at full volume.)

[kmart]

That's all well and fine, but that still doesn't give you enough data to make the judgement you made about the OP's drummer/situation. You're talking about other situations, other drummers, possibly other styles of music. Not all are equivalent.

 

I'm not one who chooses or likes to play at ear-crushing volumes by any stretch, and pride myself on being able to play the right dynamics for the material, but unless you are PLANNING to play a ultra low-volume gig and have previously selected appropriate gear (in the case of drums, that's cymbals and shells, heads, tuning, etc.), there's only so much that can be done before the sound suffers.

 

But I don't think I want to get too deep into talking about why I'd rather tell a club "go ahead and just play the damn jukebox" if that's the volume they want in any case, other than to say that if that is the desired volume level, why bother with live music in the first place?

[MarkGifford-1]

We used to take a packing blanket and fold it up so it was about 2' high, and 4' wide.

 

We'd then take it and sort of wrap it in the area beneath/around the bottom of the snare drum and butt it up against the kick drum and hihat stand.

 

It would cut the projection of the snare significantly, but the drummer could still hear it fine.

 

Really made the difference between loud and too loud, in small clubs and it wasn't visually obtrusive at all. You didn't really notice it unless you were looking for it.

 

MG