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erok123

For the 7th straight year, Visa overstays surpass illeagal border crossings

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So when you're building a wall, bring your Visa, because President Trump doesn't like immigrants, and he doesn't take American Express.

 

Visa, It's Everywhere You Want To Be.

Edited by E-money
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So, two wrongs make a right? :idk: More liberal logic.

 

Aw, more "substance".

 

I'm not allowed to name the "substance" in question by name. :lol:

 

:eekphil:

 

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This is some of the strongest information which undercuts the wall.

 

what you mean most people did not sneak across the border?

:eek:

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These people are so scared of the Orange Menace that they took a plane instead of jumping the wall.

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So, two wrongs make a right? :idk: More liberal logic.

 

Liberal logic is to insure that what steps is taken to address illegal immigration will be the most effective methods of control for the money spent, and so far nothing has demonstrated that erecting fencing along portions of the border meets that criteria.

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A sincere question: how do they know just how many people are coming in over the border illegally if those people are not being caught? IOW, how can they determine which is worse (illegal border crossings vs. visa overstays) without being able to accurately count the number of people who don't get caught crossing the border?

 

The visa overstay number is relatively easy to determine by comparison since they have records and know who came in, and whether or not they left. The illegal border crossings, not so much.... unless I'm overlooking something, which is why I'm asking...

 

Regardless of the answer to that question, IMO, neither should be ignored; it doesn't matter which is "worse" if both are a significant source of people being in the US without authorization. IMO, both parts of the problem (as well as others) need to be addressed, which is (again) why I support a comprehensive approach to the problem.

 

 

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Come on Phil...reason is not supposed to be part of the equation.

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Liberal logic is to insure that what steps is taken to address illegal immigration will be the most effective methods of control for the money spent, and so far nothing has demonstrated that erecting fencing along portions of the border meets that criteria.

 

Nothing, really? Have you heard about gated communities?

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A sincere question: how do they know just how many people are coming in over the border illegally if those people are not being caught? IOW, how can they determine which is worse (illegal border crossings vs. visa overstays) without being able to accurately count the number of people who don't get caught crossing the border?

 

The visa overstay number is relatively easy to determine by comparison since they have records and know who came in, and whether or not they left. The illegal border crossings, not so much.... unless I'm overlooking something, which is why I'm asking...

 

Regardless of the answer to that question, IMO, neither should be ignored; it doesn't matter which is "worse" if both are a significant source of people being in the US without authorization. IMO, both parts of the problem (as well as others) need to be addressed, which is (again) why I support a comprehensive approach to the problem.

 

 

Beyond knowing how many are here. The fed, state and municipalities use the census data to do long term infrastructure planning. By example, I have a co-worker who is an Indian national. He uses the same infrastructure that I do. It's imperative to understand the growth/decline and demographic to do what is in the best interest (of who is always the debate). Whether here legally or not the impact on budgets and infrastructure is the same.

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Nothing, really? Have you heard about gated communities?

 

I lived in a gated community. It sure didn’t stop people from getting in and out. In fact crimes there were a little higher than neighboring ungated communities.

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They are associated with homeowners associations which regulate even such Minor Details as what kind of bushes you can plant or how you paint your house.

 

Let's not make the mistake of extending those authoritarian tendencies onto a national scale.

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A sincere question: how do they know just how many people are coming in over the border illegally if those people are not being caught? IOW, how can they determine which is worse (illegal border crossings vs. visa overstays) without being able to accurately count the number of people who don't get caught crossing the border?

 

Because it is an "unknowable", they use extrapolation. The make an informed estimate based on number of captures, number of missed captures (they got away), number of people caught later on, witness reports, local law enforcement estimates and physical evidence (abandoned campouts, garbage on known routes, etc).

Edited by BA.Barcolounger
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Because it is an "unknowable", they use extrapolation. The make an informed estimate based on number of captures, number of missed captures (they got away), number of people caught later on, witness reports, local law enforcement estimates and physical evidence (abandoned campouts, garbage on known routes, etc).

 

Yea but how do they know

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Beyond knowing how many are here. The fed, state and municipalities use the census data to do long term infrastructure planning. By example, I have a co-worker who is an Indian national. He uses the same infrastructure that I do. It's imperative to understand the growth/decline and demographic to do what is in the best interest (of who is always the debate). Whether here legally or not the impact on budgets and infrastructure is the same.

 

That doesn't answer my question - at all.

 

Census data is only compiled every ten years, and the US Census was last taken eight years ago, so it doesn't apply at all to the last seven years that are under discussion per the OP.

 

Secondly, I suspect that not everyone who is here illegally trusts the US government to keep the census information away from ICE / Homeland Security, and therefore may not answer truthfully anyway. Besides, do they even ask you whether or not you're a US citizen on the census? Didn't a judge just say that question can not be asked on the upcoming census? If that is indeed the case (and from my recollection of the last census forms I filled out, I believe it is), then how does the census provide any data regarding the number of people who are in the US illegally?

 

 

While I can see the reasoning behind your infrastructure comments, the census is also used to apportion representatives to the US House of Representatives; counting non-citizens in that seems to me to be granting representation in the government to non-citizens...

 

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Because it is an "unknowable", they use extrapolation. The make an informed estimate based on number of captures, number of missed captures (they got away), number of people caught later on, witness reports, local law enforcement estimates and physical evidence (abandoned campouts, garbage on known routes, etc).

 

So they guesstimate. Makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

 

However, that extrapolated / estimated figure is still more questionable / less accurate than the figures for the visa overstays, would you not agree?

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Of course you lived in a gated community where crime was higher inside than outside the fencing. Are you sure you weren't in prison? lol!

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That doesn't answer my question - at all.

 

Census data is only compiled every ten years, and the US Census was last taken eight years ago, so it doesn't apply at all to the last seven years that are under discussion per the OP.

 

Secondly, I suspect that not everyone who is here illegally trusts the US government to keep the census information away from ICE / Homeland Security, and therefore may not answer truthfully anyway. Besides, do they even ask you whether or not you're a US citizen on the census? Didn't a judge just say that question can not be asked on the upcoming census? If that is indeed the case (and from my recollection of the last census forms I filled out, I believe it is), then how does the census provide any data regarding the number of people who are in the US illegally?

 

 

It doesn't.

 

The Trump Administration was (and still is) trying to get the citizenship question added for the 2020 census. A judge struck it down, but I imagine it will eventually make it to SCOTUS.

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So they guesstimate. Makes sense. Thank you for the reply.

 

However, that extrapolated / estimated figure is still more questionable / less accurate than the figures for the visa overstays, would you not agree?

 

I would agree, based on the nature of the data.

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