Members DBR013 Posted July 27, 2018 Members Share Posted July 27, 2018 Hello folks,The church I am helping out to run the praise & worship concert this weekend is going to be held in their parking lot. I am trying to convince the organizers that they will need at least one sub. I am getting fought tooth & nail over this issue. The speaks they are running are a pair or QSC K 12's FOH. Nowhere near enough speaker arrangement...I already know this and I know it's gonna sound thin and can possibly damage the speakers with the SPL's that a kick drum can put out at the volume level that will be needed to at least push through the outdoor environment. Should I go ahead and force the sub upon them or let them discover for themselves that what they have will not be enough and possibly let them damage their speakers? I forgot to mention the sub that would be used is an EV ELX 118P. Would be nice to use both of our subs but reluctant to deal with just one at this point. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 27, 2018 CMS Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 How many thousand people do you expect in the audience? Will they be dancing? Does the kick drum really need to kick them in the gut? What is the other instrumentation? And what's the purpose of the concert? Maybe they don't really want it that loud? If you've ever been to a pop music concert in the past ten years, you've probably become accustomed to the sound being centered around the drums. That isn't always a good thing. I'd worry more about people being able to hear the words, not obscured by the drums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 In my experience, people generally under-estimate how many speakers and how much power they will need for adequate coverage... especially outdoors. Mike's right - the first question is - how big of an audience, and how large of an area do you need to cover? And what's the instrumentation that will be in use? How many instruments (and what types) and how many vocal mics? What types of (and sizes of) amps will be on stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR013 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2018 Mostly canned but there will be an keyboards, bass and drums along with many vocalists. Our church has three vocalists. I know they don't want it that loud, but shouldn't a sub be used anyway? Especially if I am the bass player, I want that kick drum presence. Not going to be stupid loud just enough to know it's there. Rig consists of Ampeg PF 500 with 15" and 2X10's. I would use only the 2X10 but I feel I need more bottom than that especially if it's outdoors. It's a small parking lot probably can hold about 200 folks like sardines. May not need to be loud but I feel it should be full. That's what volume controls are for, right!? So you guys suggest not to use the sub under these circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 27, 2018 CMS Author Share Posted July 27, 2018 Sub for 200 people packed tight? With canned backing tracks and emphasis on vocals? You've got to be kidding! But it's your show and your funeral. Just make sure the drummer has a good head on his kick drum (and on his shoulders, too) and it'll sound full. If it doesn't, adding a sub won't make it so. And be careful with the volume on your bass, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DBR013 Posted July 27, 2018 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2018 Thanks Guys. I thought so. I like to play bass at low volumes. This way it can get in the mix. So I am going to bring along a sub. if they don't like it, too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMS Author MikeRivers Posted July 28, 2018 CMS Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 Unless you're charging them extra to bring the sub, they'll probably never notice. At least I hope not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted July 30, 2018 Members Share Posted July 30, 2018 I used to bring a sub. It had two 12" drivers in a 1/2" plywood box that weighed 60 pounds. I got rid of it. I first had Carvins with a 15" woofer, but as I got some outdoor parking lot jobs at a yacht and country club I bough EV-ZLX 15P active speakers with a 15" woofer. They get plenty loud, and they weigh about 37 lbs each (I do one-nighters). I find that using the BBE Sonic Maximizer I can use the low contour knob to compensate for not having a sub. It's not quite the same thing, but close enough for my audiences, and that 60 lb sub sure was mighty heavy. For indoor gigs I back off the low contour to suit the room. The funny thing is, the louder I play, the less bass contour I need. Of course that is for my audience, my style of music, and my needs. There is more than one right way to do this. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members philboking Posted July 31, 2018 Members Share Posted July 31, 2018 How to tell if you have subwoofer disease: If the mix sounds great to you, and you pull out your cellphone and fire up the spectrum analyser app, and it shows the sub-100 Hz bass is 20 dB louder than everything else. I'm not saying you have it, but it is a very very common disease, and seems to be spreading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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