Members I stink at bass Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Why are folded horn subwoofers so efficient? I saw one with a sensitivity rating of 108db, and a maximum SPL of 140db. How come no one every talks about these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Why are folded horn subwoofers so efficient? I saw one with a sensitivity rating of 108db, and a maximum SPL of 140db. How come no one every talks about these? Lotsa guys here with tops on poles over subs. With a folded-horn subs, things get a little more complicated (time alignment). A little research usually takes care of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted February 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Lotsa guys here with tops on poles over subs. With a folded-horn subs, things get a little more complicated (time alignment). A little research usually takes care of that. I knew there had to be some reason. LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Bigger, heavier. May use less power for more SPL, but there are tradeoffs. Think of them like transformers for speakers, they make smaller speakers do louder things, but as with anything in life, there are tradeoffs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted February 24, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 Bigger, heavier. May use less power for more SPL, but there are tradeoffs. Think of them like transformers for speakers, they make smaller speakers do louder things, but as with anything in life, there are tradeoffs What are the trade offs, other than weight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members imnotded Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 What are the trade offs, other than weight? Size. They are usually much bigger. They also sound "different." Some say cleaner, thats debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 What are the trade offs, other than weight? Another big disadvantage is low frequency cutoff, as it is frequency-limited by the throat size of the horn. You're not gonna get horn-loading down to the tuning of a lot of reflex boxes without a huge surface are. There's also throat resonances and other deficiencies that make a lot of common designs pretty peaky in response. And amplifiers just keep getting more powerful, cheaper, lighter, and more efficient. That makes building really large boxes just for efficiency less desirable -- Especially when you consider the materials cost and labor that must go into a decent design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 24, 2011 Members Share Posted February 24, 2011 I use a pair of CV LR36's (18" folded horn, 700W continuous, 1500W peak). On the plus side, they are very loud. Way louder than an open faced speaker of the same power rating. On the negative side, they are heavy (145lbs each), and very large. The other negative is that some believe that they don't have the same tonal quality of a open faced sub. I use a DRPA speaker management unit to time align and equalize. I get incredible bass with these. My drummer has a pair of CV128 powered subs. While these are loud enough for small venues, they are no match for the folded horns. I would say they are half as loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 I use 4 EAW LA400 12" Subs - an I have never gotten a complaint on Sound quality, depth, or Volume. They are about 100lb's Ea., which is lighter than the related 2x18 products by others... Each is the equiv of a 4719x in Volume, but run on 800w Vs 1500w. The trade offs are as described above, but in practice I rarely get confronted with the Low Freq Extension issue; I do a LOT of EDM, and that Rumble is more of a hindrance than a help. I also use a Set of EAW LA128's with the same tops, so I can comment on the difference- The best way I could describe it is Blue Collar Vs White Collar. The 2x18 is Rougher sounding, a little less articulate, but has terrific Impact, Punch and attitude. The 12" Horn is smooooooth, refined, Loud, and CLEAN. It's less forward sounding. Which would I Choose? Probably the 12" Horns - They are more transportable!. I can lift one into the truck by myself, and I like the sound. It'd be real close though. Todd A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Whats an example of a folded horn sub you could get today? Also, can someone tell me, what does bandpass mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Advantages: SPL per watt over a very limited passband. Disadvantages:Low frequency extension is less than a typical front loaded cabinet except for the very large and heavy ones.Size is generally largerWeight is generally 50% higherCost is generally higher for similar performanceOvertones and artifacts due to throat and comprssion issuesTend to work better in multiples which increases mouth area (assuming throat length is adequate) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Why are folded horn subwoofers so efficient? I saw one with a sensitivity rating of 108db, and a maximum SPL of 140db. How come no one every talks about these?maybe cuz you don't read any of the posts here concerning folded horn bass cabs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 The 108dB/1W/1M is generally not an accurate picture of what is happening, usually this number is derived from the peak SPL which is never as low or even near to the cutoff, and sometimes the SPL is normalized from 1/4 of the 4 box cluster, taking advantage of acoustic gain, and low frequency coupling extension. It pays to know the details when something appears to be that much better than the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Whats an example of a folded horn sub you could get today? Also, can someone tell me, what does bandpass mean? A folded sub that I've worked with for a long time and really like is the Yorkville LS1208. It'll hit hard and low and do it for a long time without working up a sweat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 +1. I run four of the 1208s and like them a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 The 108dB/1W/1M is generally not an accurate picture of what is happening, usually this number is derived from the peak SPL which is never as low or even near to the cutoff, and sometimes the SPL is normalized from 1/4 of the 4 box cluster, taking advantage of acoustic gain, and low frequency coupling extension. It pays to know the details when something appears to be that much better than the rest. Yeah that 108 & 140 looks like the published spec for the LA400 actually. I will say this, it's not twice as loud as a 4719. That and that spec is measured way up at 150Hz. The realistic spec is about 102. Todd A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Whenever I think of folded horn subs, I think of those giant scoops that Jason Sound used to build back in the day. Then I think of every DJ ever, pushing the subs until they unload and you get that WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP sound. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 The 108dB/1W/1M is generally not an accurate picture of what is happening, usually this number is derived from the peak SPL which is never as low or even near to the cutoff, and sometimes the SPL is normalized from 1/4 of the 4 box cluster, taking advantage of acoustic gain, and low frequency coupling extension. It pays to know the details when something appears to be that much better than the rest.I'm guessing it is at a frequency that you wouldn't be using in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted February 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Ok, so I have all of my questions about the folded horns answered, and it sounds like I made the right choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 The Bill Woods designed LS1208 is infact a Bass Pipe. It has none of the characteristics of a Folded Horn. It is basically a cabinet with a very large horn flared port. A two year investigation into the optimization of high output low frequency sound has yielded the LS1208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Chickentown Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 another example - http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Don't know why you think a 1208 is not a horn loaded sub. I also have measurements for most of those subs and it does in fact have the characteristics of a horn loaded sub. What makes you say otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 Don't know why you think a 1208 is not a horn loaded sub. I also have measurements for most of those subs and it does in fact have the characteristics of a horn loaded sub. What makes you say otherwise? Conversations with Bill Woods and Todd Michaels at Yorkville Sound, assure me that they are not Folded Horns. If they were Folded Horns the guy who designed them would have not described them in these terms. "Think of it as a bass reflex sub with a very long tappered port and a very large mouth." That was in response to my inquiry as to whether they were Folded Horns, many years ago. I have to believe that guy who designed them knows what he is talking about, as does the current USC1 designer. Both will tell you the same thing. I have the interior diagrams for the LS808 and it is definately NOT a Folded Horn. The description above is very apt when one looks at the interior diagram. The path lengths are too short to be Folded Horns. I am in possession of information and testing info that others do not have. Some of it was posted originally on PSW, (while I was already in possesion of the same information), by another individual. The information and data that I have that is not already out there will not be published, since I swore not to post any of that data by one of those two individuals. My failure to do so would preclude my abilities to be party to proprietary information of such things. I have the data and measured charts for the LS608 as well, among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Harmonycat Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 another example - http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler/ That really is a folded horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted February 25, 2011 Members Share Posted February 25, 2011 The CV is a folded horn IMHO. I have the LR36 and have replaced a driver in it. You can easily see the fold and how the sound is directed from the speaker through the horn. It is a horn that is folded into a box ..... ie folded horn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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