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Guitar Center Faces Imminent Bankruptcy After 59 Years In Business


techristian

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But are any of them buying new guitars from Guitar Center?

 

A lot of them appear to have shiny new guitars although I can't speak as to where they got them. As for myself, I bought a shiny new Gibson SG at the local Guitar Center about four years ago.

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Hedge funds destroyed them. How do you accrue 1Billion in debt? They can’t pay that back. They’ll probably {censored} all the stores like Mars. This won’t affect any of us since they’ve gone to comeplete {censored} and I can barely get my strings there! Good riddence. Some locals might pop up again.

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Dan, I think the data in that article is a bit old - they announced a restructuring / refinance of their debt just recently - It sounds like they won't be going anywhere until at least 2022.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/guitar-centers-proposed-debt-exchange-would-constitute-a-default-moodys-2018-03-14https://www.marketwatch.com/story/guitar-centers-proposed-debt-exchange-would-constitute-a-default-moodys-2018-03-14

 

 

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GC and Gibson will fall. Its just a matter of time.

 

Bad business decisions, overreaching, archaic mindsets can no longer survive the brutal reality that guitars are no longer relevant. I know that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but kids today are making records on their iPads using VIs. The game has changed.

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GC and Gibson will fall. Its just a matter of time.

 

Bad business decisions, overreaching, archaic mindsets can no longer survive the brutal reality that guitars are no longer relevant. I know that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but kids today are making records on their iPads using VIs. The game has changed.

 

Right! They needed to change the name to "Computer Music Center" about 10 years ago!

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It does rub me the wrong way, but only because it's uninformed. Sales for 2017:

 

DJ gear $164 MM

Electric guitars $589 MM

Ukuleles $119 MM

Acoustic Guitars $495 MM

Keyboard synthesizers $143 MM

 

Bottom line: guitars $1.08 billion, guitars and ukuleles $1.2 billion, DJ gear $164 million.

 

In terms of unit sales, ukuleles are doing extremely well - remember, they often sell in the sub-$100 range so it takes a lot of ukuleles to add up to $119 MM. Unit sales for electric guitars continue to fall, and has been falling for a while. But total revenue from electric guitars were up about 7% in 2017, the first time in years there wasn't a decline. Acoustic guitars had a big period of growth but started to flatten out in 2016. DJ shows consistent, but modest, year over year increases and has likely taken away more market share from keyboards than guitars.

 

Call me naive but if Gibson is selling so many guitars, they must be royally screwing up elsewhere. I know you worked for them so you have to be careful but they have made some questionable expansion moves over the years. I think that has a lot to do with their demise. But what do I know...

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Right! They needed to change the name to "Computer Music Center" about 10 years ago!

 

Well its not all in a name but I do think if you look at a company like Sweetwater who has done very well for themselves, its more about focus.

 

Gibson has focused on too many things besides guitars. They have purchased other companies and most of them have failed. Perhaps Gibson should re-focus on guitars only or the Gibson brand.

 

Even though Sweetwater sells all types of gear, their main product is stellar customer services, hence their success. But what do I know...

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GC and Gibson will fall. Its just a matter of time.

 

Bad business decisions, overreaching, archaic mindsets can no longer survive the brutal reality that guitars are no longer relevant. I know that is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way but kids today are making records on their iPads using VIs. The game has changed.

As noted, that's a massive exaggeration at best. I do think the VST world has made an impact, absolutely, but "guitars are no longer relevant" is absurd. When you go to a concert, you don't see kids on iPads, and you aren't exactly going to see a whole lot in the studio.

 

If GC craps out or Gibson does, it's due to grossly incompetent management.

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It does rub me the wrong way, but only because it's uninformed. Sales for 2017:

 

DJ gear $164 MM

Electric guitars $589 MM

Ukuleles $119 MM

Acoustic Guitars $495 MM

Keyboard synthesizers $143 MM

 

Bottom line: guitars $1.08 billion, guitars and ukuleles $1.2 billion, DJ gear $164 million.

 

In terms of unit sales, ukuleles are doing extremely well - remember, they often sell in the sub-$100 range so it takes a lot of ukuleles to add up to $119 MM. Unit sales for electric guitars continue to fall, and has been falling for a while. But total revenue from electric guitars were up about 7% in 2017, the first time in years there wasn't a decline. Acoustic guitars had a big period of growth but started to flatten out in 2016. DJ shows consistent, but modest, year over year increases and has likely taken away more market share from keyboards than guitars.

I'll bite, where did you get this?

 

And what is "DJ gear?" (PS anyone else sick to death of DJs being considered in any way shape or form musicians? wtf?)

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I'll bite, where did you get this?

 

And what is "DJ gear?" (PS anyone else sick to death of DJs being considered in any way shape or form musicians? wtf?)

 

Watch

and tell me he`s not a musician. These boxes are the new guitars for todays kids. Like it or not but the guitar is a dinosaur and will die. Yeah, there will still be a small group who plays them but its an archaic tool in kids eyes... maybe it`ll make a comeback but I`m not investing in guitars any time soon.
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Incorporating "DJ thinking" into my rock tracks (dropping out instruments at strategic moments, building to breaks, changing tempos, etc.) has really added an important dimension to the music. I've stolen many ideas from - I mean, been inspired by :) - a lot of DJs.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah...too bad Beethoven never thought of doing any of that stuff....:lol:

 

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Beethoven automated mute buttons? Wow, the dude was ahead of his time!!

 

The mute buttons in his mind, yes. He certainly dropped out instruments at strategic moments, built to 'breaks', and changed tempos. Just saying, lest more credit be given elsewhere than is really deserved. You've heard some of his symphonies etc., yes? There's actually so much emotion and musical power being wielded that I could understand if some of those things weren't readily observed. Nothing new under the sun in that regard though.

 

 

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Many years ago I shopped at a place called Ace Music in Miami. It was Miami's equivalent of Manny's in New York.

 

Big, family owned store with people who worked there for decades, knew the business, repaired all instruments from saxes to cellos to guitars to drums --- AND the store was a gathering place for musicians to 'talk shop'. From the old time Big Band guys to the young Rockers, we traded stories and drank coffee. I bought my first and second saxes there.

 

When I bought my second sax, there were 3 Selmer MarkVI saxes in stock, I took them into a practice/demo room (almost sound proof) with a strobe tuner and picked out the one with the best intonation.

 

When my sax needed overhauling (saxes need new pads, springs, corks every few years) they had expert technicians to do the job and when the sax came out of the shop, it sounded better than new.

 

This is my idea of a good music store.

 

Then a chain, Mars Music came in and bought them out. They staffed the store with low paid musicians who didn't get enough gigs to avoid working a day job and hadn't enough experience to give expert advice. I bought my first wind synthesizer there, and I knew more about it than the sales staff. Repair department didn't work on everything, and their reputation for woodwind repairs was so low that I didn't take my sax to them.

 

Eventually Mars Music went out of business, the entire chain went belly-up.

 

What Big-Box music stores don't realize is that they are not just in the sales business, they are in the service business. It used to be that you could go into a music store, tell the person who handled your department what you needed, and you got great advice as to what you need, whether the store carried it or not, and not just what they needed to move off the floor.

 

Unfortunately, underpaid musicians flocked to the Big Box stores to save perhaps 5% on purchases. In reality, anything under 10% is insignificant. The down side of this is the real music stores, the ones with expert and personal people who would work there for decades and new there stuff disappeared. If Guitar Center goes the way of Mars Music it won't matter much to me.

 

I went to my local mom & pop store to replace a few pieces of broken stage gear. The owner said it wasn't cost effective for him to stock those items anymore so I went to GC. They didn't have them either. Asked if I wanted to order them, and I said "No Thank You".

 

I went back to my mom & pop store, had him order them, and paid less than I would have at GC. He appreciates my business and since he didn't have to keep them in inventory, he only charged me cost plus a small percentage plus shipping to him. I would have paid a little more just to keep him in business.

 

Music stores should be a service as well as a sales industry IMHO.

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Watch

and tell me he`s not a musician. These boxes are the new guitars for todays kids. Like it or not but the guitar is a dinosaur and will die. Yeah, there will still be a small group who plays them but its an archaic tool in kids eyes... maybe it`ll make a comeback but I`m not investing in guitars any time soon.

 

For me...roughly along the same lines as watching a juggling bartender. And if I don't watch, not much at all. For the most part it seems he could have hit that button there instead of here, and this button here instead of there and it wouldn't make a hill of beans difference. I've played under conductors that I could say close to the exact same thing about.

 

Either way, I'd grant the person in the room providing the music or music-ish sounds the off hand title of musician, for organizational purposes anyway.

 

That said, there are musicians...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...and there are MUSICIANS.

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I would guess you're in the camp of the person who commented "Fantastic performance of a mediocre track. I aspire to play so well, but I hope never to write so badly." :)

 

Electronic music has its Yngwie Malmsteen-type players who can do a zillion notes a minute. Some figure out how to control that and use it in service of musicality, others never get past the "lookit me" stage. I've been fortunate to see live performances that combined real emotional impact with the power of a group like Led Zeppelin.

 

The problem is they're few and far between...just like they are in any genre, I guess. I've seen orchestras that played with mind-boggling authority and power, and others where the musicians were just phoning in their parts because the audience was there to be oh-such-special fans of the "arts," and wouldn't know a good cello solo if it hit them in the head.

 

If I took a DJ to see that orchestra, he'd think classical music sucks. If he saw first the first orchestra I mentioned, he'd love it and want to sample it :)

 

I only saw a few comments at the top which seemed like a bit of worship. But yes, I concur with the one you've relayed.

 

I have an open mind though. I only need to be wowed to admit that it has happened...that I have been wowed. I thought the drum solo done by the gentleman with the same gear that was next in the YT cue was more captivating.

 

Yes, there are quite a few things that can put an entire orchestra into a lull. The audience never mattered to me that much...whether they were fully engaged or half asleep, children or senior citizens, my job to perform the music to my satisfaction and of course to the conductor's, and my colleague's was a much more determining factor. I of course hoped the audience enjoyed it, and if not would have been mortified to find it was because of a failing on my part. But it's part of being a professional I think... having one's own standard to live up to that a failure with would set off alarms long before the audience knows.

 

I used to sit "outside" at the edge of the stage 10 feet from a regular and his wife who were in the front row. It really didn't matter what we were playing, he would fall asleep, the steak dinner he just had across the street having it's effect I suppose, and his fur clad wife dutifully focused on the conductor and seemingly tolerant if not oblivious to the snooze happening right next to her. My stand partner and I had a running bet on how many movements he'd make it through before he nodded off, or whether the huge symbol crash in the 4th movement would jar him awake. very-happy.png.197c47f720636f02390cc2b0a33804da.png' alt='smiley-veryhappy'>

 

Of course an audience that is yelling at you and throwing things might not get a good show, but I don't have much of any experience there.

 

There was this time though when Lionel Hampton had some of us classical cats play an impromptu solo during a piece at one of his shows with us, and as I finished mine there was a volcanic eruption to their feet in standing ovation by the audience. Sorry, sounds like boasting, but just to say that that the audience and their pleasure does matter, I'm glad I reached them, and that warm fuzzy is still here with me today many years later. smiley-happy

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" Samplers " are not musicians, they may have egos as big ad Mount Everest but the talent / creativity level as high as a mole hill.

Trends comes and go, but people would rather see musicians, whether a live Rock, Country, R and B band or orchestra , not just an over glorified producer / engineer who splices music samples together and call it music. There is no creativity in sampling .... It could be called theft, intellectual / creative laziness.

​​​​

 

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I only saw a few comments at the top which seemed like a bit of worship. But yes, I concur with the one you've relayed.

 

I have an open mind though. I only need to be wowed to admit that it has happened...that I have been wowed. I thought the drum solo done by the gentleman with the same gear that was next in the YT cue was more captivating.

 

Yes, there are quite a few things that can put an entire orchestra into a lull. The audience never mattered to me that much...whether they were fully engaged or half asleep, children or senior citizens, my job to perform the music to my satisfaction and of course to the conductor's, and my colleague's was a much more determining factor. I of course hoped the audience enjoyed it, and if not would have been mortified to find it was because of a failing on my part. But it's part of being a professional I think... having one's own standard to live up to that a failure with would set off alarms long before the audience knows.

 

I used to sit "outside" at the edge of the stage 10 feet from a regular and his wife who were in the front row. It really didn't matter what we were playing, he would fall asleep, the steak dinner he just had across the street having it's effect I suppose, and his fur clad wife dutifully focused on the conductor and seemingly tolerant if not oblivious to the snooze happening right next to her. My stand partner and I had a running bet on how many movements he'd make it through before he nodded off, or whether the huge symbol crash in the 4th movement would jar him awake. very-happy.png.197c47f720636f02390cc2b0a33804da.png' alt='smiley-veryhappy'>

 

Of course an audience that is yelling at you and throwing things might not get a good show, but I don't have much of any experience there.

 

There was this time though when Lionel Hampton had some of us classical cats play an impromptu solo during a piece at one of his shows with us, and as I finished mine there was a volcanic eruption to their feet in standing ovation by the audience. Sorry, sounds like boasting, but just to say that that the audience and their pleasure does matter, I'm glad I reached them, and that warm fuzzy is still here with me today many years later. smiley-happy

 

Another special stage moment and many actual musicians experience this phenomenon, when you deliver a flawless performance of complex music ...

is silence when you finish the tune .... It as loud as Woodstock shouting out on cue .... That kind of moment ....PRICELESS !!!!

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What I've been reading about Guitar Center lately is that they're expanding their support for the installed and commercial market. That's where people are spending money, so it may not be a big deal to them that they aren't selling guitars at the rate they were 10 years ago.

 

The fact that they have a pile of debt isn't an industry-slowdown problem, it's a management problem. Maybe they'll make a pile of money in the installed market, pay off the guitars they have on the shelf, and regroup.

 

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We're not really talking about the same thing. Of course I'm familiar with a wide variety of classical music, I've produced/engineered several classical projects. But whereas Beethoven was doing this from a compositional standpoint, DJs do it from an improvisational standpoint. I still see a mix as a performance, not just setting levels, and being able to record those performances as automation is an amazing advance - I can get really wild, keep what works, and toss or edit what doesn't. DJs take the same approach, doing it in the context of technology rather than notation, and I've learned a lot from it.

 

I started playing guitar because of seeing Segovia, and shortly thereafter fell in love with Wes Montgomery and jazz, so I've always had one foot in composition and one foot in improvisation. Being able to apply DJ concepts of improvisations to songs I write has helped both IMO.

 

 

 

 

The elements are the same, plainly. The application may be somewhat altered along with the degree/amount their use, but dropping an instrument to highlight it's absence or it's reappearance is just that, changing tempo is changing tempo either way as well and whether it's composed or improvised doesn't change that. Mozart, if not Beethoven, was no stranger to improv and used said elements as needed it's reasonable to presume.

 

 

The difference really is how they serve the musical intent, or perhaps take the place of any meaningful amount of it.

 

You can bake a devils food cake with cocoa, flour, sugar as per recipe, or you can toss it all about and throw it up in the air and see if it comes down cupcakes. It's still cocoa, flour, and sugar.

 

 

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