Members missedmyexit Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 Picked up a 1977 Guild on Reverb. The guitar is in amazing shape for it's age and sounds great. However the saddle is barely keeping the strings from catching the bridge. Question is when do I get the neck reset. She sounds good and action is acceptable. It's obviously going to have to happen but do I do it now or should I wait until the action is bad? Below is a video if you want to hear what it sounds like. This is a cover of a Colter Wall Song. https://www.dropbox.com/s/srb6yup4kmbw1si/Video%20Apr%2002%2C%206%2057%2056%20PM.mov?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 ...the saddle is barely keeping the strings from catching the bridge... ...sounds good and action is acceptable... I'm betting that there is also little or no neck relief. There are methods of assessing neck relief and the neck angle using a straight edge and a ruler. There are several good youboob videos explaining how it's done. Here's a pretty good one: [video=youtube;rWEHPDI4F58] It sounds like that guitar is on the ragged edge of ceasing to be "acceptable." It could quickly become "unacceptable" with the next change of strings, seasons, temperature, or humidity. Enjoy it now, but start researching a good luthier who knows Guild guitars, and get on his calendar. (And start saving up for what it's gonna cost.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 4, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 got a interesting response from a Luthier I emailed. "I don't do Resets on Guilds anymore. Thanks for considering my shop" Anyone know why he would single out Guilds not to do resets on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 got a interesting response from a Luthier I emailed. "I don't do Resets on Guilds anymore. Thanks for considering my shop" Anyone know why he would single out Guilds not to do resets on? I honestly don't know - maybe something about the design may make them more difficult to work on? I always liked those D-25's - very cool guitar! I'd definitely take it in and have a pro look it over and see what they think insofar as the neck reset. FretFiend gave you good advice all the way around IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members FretFiend. Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 Guild guitars seem to have a reputation as being tougher to do a neck reset on than Martins or Gibsons. There is a lot of argument as to whether that is deserved or not. Some luthiers won't touch them. Others have no problem at all with them. Could be that there are subtle differences that only hardcore Guild people are savvy to. I understand that there is a pretty good Guild Guitar forum called, "LetsTalkGuild." Maybe you can find some answers there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 got a interesting response from a Luthier I emailed. "I don't do Resets on Guilds anymore. Thanks for considering my shop" Anyone know why he would single out Guilds not to do resets on? I haven't reset a Guild (yet) but I have worked on a couple, including one very nice 12 string that a "luthier" totally mucked up by NOT doing a reset. First, how do you tell if it needs one. Start by making sure the guitar is stable and correctly humidified. A dry guitar may look like the neck is overset. There are basically two rules of thumb - the one most commonly used is that the end of a straight edge sitting on the fretboard just just touch the top of the bridge (not saddle). If it is below the level of the bridge by very much (1/16 inch or more) then it needs work. The other test is a little boolean - IF the action is acceptable (whatever that means to you) AND you have at least 1/8 inch of saddle sticking out of the bridge THEN the neck angle is OK. In other words, if the guitar is playable and you have a reasonable amount of saddle then don't worry about it. Why the fuss over Guilds? They have dovetails so they should come apart fairly reasonably and I don't know of any that were made using weird glue. One of the big issues is that they are finished with the necks on so the process of taking them apart will damage finish - they do use nitro so in theory it can be repaired, but its still going to be ugly. The 12 strings have dual truss rods so you have to be careful drilling the steam holes. I would say that your tech's concerns are the finish (and some of the beautiful woods used on some of them). Going rates for dovetail resets are $300 - 350, I would certainly ask about the finish. Oh, the guitar that crossed my bench. It was a lovely blond maple jumbo 12 string - and yes, it needed a reset that I wasn't comfortable doing. It came back to me 6 months later to have a pickup installed - instead of fixing the neck angle some bozo had shaved the bridge by 1/8 inch, there wasn't enough slot for the UST so I sent it away again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 4, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 I haven't reset a Guild (yet) but I have worked on a couple, including one very nice 12 string that a "luthier" totally mucked up by NOT doing a reset. First, how do you tell if it needs one. Start by making sure the guitar is stable and correctly humidified. A dry guitar may look like the neck is overset. There are basically two rules of thumb - the one most commonly used is that the end of a straight edge sitting on the fretboard just just touch the top of the bridge (not saddle). If it is below the level of the bridge by very much (1/16 inch or more) then it needs work. The other test is a little boolean - IF the action is acceptable (whatever that means to you) AND you have at least 1/8 inch of saddle sticking out of the bridge THEN the neck angle is OK. In other words, if the guitar is playable and you have a reasonable amount of saddle then don't worry about it. Why the fuss over Guilds? They have dovetails so they should come apart fairly reasonably and I don't know of any that were made using weird glue. One of the big issues is that they are finished with the necks on so the process of taking them apart will damage finish - they do use nitro so in theory it can be repaired, but its still going to be ugly. The 12 strings have dual truss rods so you have to be careful drilling the steam holes. I would say that your tech's concerns are the finish (and some of the beautiful woods used on some of them). Going rates for dovetail resets are $300 - 350, I would certainly ask about the finish. Oh, the guitar that crossed my bench. It was a lovely blond maple jumbo 12 string - and yes, it needed a reset that I wasn't comfortable doing. It came back to me 6 months later to have a pickup installed - instead of fixing the neck angle some bozo had shaved the bridge by 1/8 inch, there wasn't enough slot for the UST so I sent it away again. Thanks Freeman, I will toss a straight edge on it tonight but the action is acceptable I'ld be surprised if the bridge has 1/16th of saddle. I'll add some pictures tonight tomorrow to give a visual. Sounds like it will need a reset. The luthier emailed me back when I asked about why he doesn't do Guild Neck resets and it's exactly what you said. The finish gets messed up and the time it takes to fix it properly isn't worth the money for the neck reset. Now I just got to find someone good enough to do the work right that isn't going to turn it down because of the finishing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 Thanks Freeman, I will toss a straight edge on it tonight but the action is acceptable I'ld be surprised if the bridge has 1/16th of saddle. I'll add some pictures tonight tomorrow to give a visual. Sounds like it will need a reset. The luthier emailed me back when I asked about why he doesn't do Guild Neck resets and it's exactly what you said. The finish gets messed up and the time it takes to fix it properly isn't worth the money for the neck reset. Now I just got to find someone good enough to do the work right that isn't going to turn it down because of the finishing issues. I'll look forward to the pictures. If I was going to attempt something like that I would carefully score along the neck heel, but I would also plan on doing a little spot refinishing while the neck and body were apart. The nice thing about nitro is that refinishing is possible - I'm just now doing an ugly repair on a 1977 black Les Paul and the repair is almost invisible. Best to look for someone with Guild experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 My sister spent about $700USD years ago getting an old Guild restored (including neck reset) and it was pretty underwhelming when finished. I would always recommend spending the money on a new one, but that's how I roll. New guitars are usually way better than 1970's ones IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 Congratulations and Happy New Guitar Day. Unfortunately, IMHO a 41 year old guitar comes with guaranteed issues. If the action is "acceptable" with 1/16 of saddle or less sticking out above the bridge it will become "acceptable"+1/16" with 3/16" of saddle. When I bought my Ibanez back in '04 I had a chance to buy a '76 D25. I passed because I didn't want to deal with the potential issues of what was at the time a 28 year old guitar. Enjoy your guitar and start saving for a reset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted April 4, 2018 Members Share Posted April 4, 2018 The cheat way (Freeman will probably flame me) to extend the playing life of a guitar that isn't necessarily worth hundreds of dollars of neck rest is to slot the bridge saddle so you can go much lower with the saddle and retain good break angle. This is irreversible, but a bridge replacement later isn't that bad if you decide to get the neck done and return it to stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 5, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 yep not good.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil O'Keefe Posted April 5, 2018 Share Posted April 5, 2018 Yeah, that definitely looks to me like it needs some serious work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 5, 2018 Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 Could be the reason it was being sold. And I'm guessing that the mahogany has been given some sort of stain to heighten the red color - that adds to the potential finish problems. Not sure my advice will be good, but I would suggest not rushing into anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 5, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 Could be the reason it was being sold. And I'm guessing that the mahogany has been given some sort of stain to heighten the red color - that adds to the potential finish problems. Not sure my advice will be good' date=' but I would suggest not rushing into anything.[/quote'] The redish color is the lighting. The finish is original and the guitar is a flat brown. I got a couple emails out to local luthiers just to get on their radar. If I am being honest, if the guitar can be repaired and have a blemish or two around the heel I can live with that. I just want to keep it playable. Season is about to change here so we will see how the guitar reacts once the higher humidity starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 5, 2018 Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 Good luck with it and keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Grant Harding Posted April 5, 2018 Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 If it sounds really good I'd be tempted to get the neck reset. It looks like a really nice guitar. I would slot the bridge to prevent catching the bridge behind the saddle regardless. Simple job and it should make a difference. Sorry I forgot the HNGD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted April 5, 2018 Members Share Posted April 5, 2018 Ouch! That looks like the straightedge hits 1/8" below the top of the bridge and the saddle is barely visible. If you can find someone who will do a reset reasonably go for it, otherwise Grant's solution, ramping the bridge, can be done cheaply as a DIY project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Delmont Posted April 6, 2018 Members Share Posted April 6, 2018 got a interesting response from a Luthier I emailed. "I don't do Resets on Guilds anymore. Thanks for considering my shop" Anyone know why he would single out Guilds not to do resets on? I've heard that they're harder to remove than Gibson and Martin necks. Keep looking. You'll find someone. If you're really stuck, go ask at www.letstalkguild.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 26, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2018 So I just got the guitar back from the Luthier, The neck angle is much improved and I am happy with the increased lifespan added to this guitar. This is my first guitar to get a neck reset so not sure what the expectation is. I did not some cosmetic blemishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 26, 2018 Members Share Posted April 26, 2018 Good job. It might need another reset in 30 or so years but you've got some great playing ahead of you. The cosmetic damage is pretty much to be expected - I wouldn't worry a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members missedmyexit Posted April 26, 2018 Author Members Share Posted April 26, 2018 Good job. It might need another reset in 30 or so years but you've got some great playing ahead of you. The cosmetic damage is pretty much to be expected - I wouldn't worry a bit. Thanks Freeman this being the first time around I did not know what to expect. All in All it cost 300 which I think is more then fair and it was complete in a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DeepEnd Posted April 26, 2018 Members Share Posted April 26, 2018 Happy New(ly restored) Guitar Day. Play it in good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Freeman Keller Posted April 26, 2018 Members Share Posted April 26, 2018 That is the low side of going rate and in my book probably doubled the value of your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members puzzle guy Posted May 3, 2018 Members Share Posted May 3, 2018 We havent heard how it sounds ? I believe yours has a Brazilian Rosewood bridge .you might have to break in it ( sometimes a neck reset does that ) - i own a 1978 D-25CH ( with a brazilian rosewood bridge ) , its sound is amazing .Their are work horse instrument for the pro on a budget - very common back in the early seventies -best deal you could get on a new acoustic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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