what determines what you can use the amp for what instruments?

[samal50]

I have the Simmons DA50 amp which is marketed and made for electronic drum kits, but can it actually be used for keyboards and synthesizers as well or are the specs of this amp SPECIFIC to what it's marketed to be used for (in this case an electronic drum kit)?

 

Although I have seen the Peavey VYPYR VIP 3 100W 1x12 amp sold as a guitar modeling combo amp that can "morph" into a bass guitar amp, to an acoustic, and to an electric amp.

[DeepEnd]

You can use a drum amp for keys and vise versa. Some drummers actually use keyboard amps because drum amps are more expensive. It should sound okay with an acoustic guitar as well. You could also probably get away with using your Simmons as a practice amp for bass since drums have a lot of low end. As for the Peavey, I suspect you're thinking of the Vypyr VIP3 (https://peavey.com/products/index.cfm/item/658/118347). But it's a special case because it's designed for multiple instruments. But realistically an electric guitar sounds the way it does because it's plugged in to a guitar amp, the Fender Bassman notwithstanding. I played electric guitar through a bass amp when I first got into electric and sure you can muddle through with the wrong amp for your needs. But in the long run it's better to get the right amp for the job.

[samal50]

is the reason why drum amps can be used as a keyboard amp as well is because both instruments have low and high frequencies? Sorry, if I'm getting too technical here. Would the Simmons DA50 actually work for vocals as well? It has EQs so I'm sure it can be tweaked to get the high freq and low freq and mids when necessary.

[WRGKMC]

Yes, both keyboard and Drum amps tend to have a wide frequency response similar to a PA or Hi Fi because they need to reproduce a much wider response from the instruments. Both typically have a separate Horn and woofer and a crossover for separating the frequencies between the two or at least a crossover for the horn to prevent bass frequencies from blowing it.

 

Bass Guitar many 15" speakers may be no more then 4KHz though some bass amps do contain additional horns and even may be bi amped to drive highs and lows separately. Guitar amps tend to use speakers that top out in the 5~6KHz ranges but rarely use crossover systems unless they are for acoustic or modeling. Your classic electric guitar tones originated by pushing a low fidelity amp and midrange speaker beyond its normal limits to make it saturate and even when guitar amps aren't pushed that way players typically use pedals to emulate that sound. Both guitar and bass amps tend to have EQ's voiced to match the instruments needs too with the guitar amps being voiced for notes an octave higher.

 

Acoustic guitar amps tend to have a wider frequency response as do most modeling amps. They tend to have wider fidelity speakers. I bought one speaker that came from a Peavey Modeling amp and its got a frequency response up to 10K which is pretty good for a 12" speaker. The electronics use in the peavey amp produced cabinet emulation which was superimposed over through the full fidelity speaker thus eliminating the need of using of an actual speaker with limited range to produce that tonal effect. Whether its as good as an actual speaker rolling off the highs and lows is debatable but I use cabinet emulators when recording and they are the closest thing to actual miked cabs to date.

 

If anything, an electric drum amp compared to a keyboard amp in a similar class is likely to have a greater ability to handle bass transients. Possibly having a more durable woofer and better heat sinking in order to survive the brutal transients produced by the kick and drums yet have the ability to produce smooth highs without the kick transients chopping into those highs. There may also be a difference where frequencies are crossed and the overall range too. Drums need to produce highs up to at least 12~13K to sound natural and all the way down to 40~80hz for the kick. Most cymbals are above 5K with the exception of a rides bell tones and other gong like cymbals. Below 5K you typically have the snare and drums below that point.

 

Keyboard on the other hand tends to be fairly linear without a huge need of frequency response above 10~12K on many of the voices it can produce. The only major requirements most keyboard amps can use is mid scooping and high low boosting close to the Fletcher Munson curve with some extra beef in the bottom end when synth sounds are used. I've played both guitar and bass through a keyboard amp and they come as close to being a multi purpose amp as you can get for someone who switches instruments. Works well for acoustic guitar too. I played in a band where the keyboard player would switch to acoustic and it sounded fairly natural.

 

I think you'll find either the drum or keyboard amps are going to sound very similar to a powered monitor for sound quality. The most you may need is an EQ to smooth out the response for whatever instrument you may be using is the built in EQ doesn't quite cut it.

[DeepEnd]

That's right. Both are full range amps. It would probably work for vocals, acoustic guitar amps often have mike inputs so you don't have to lug a PA. But 50 Watts isn't much for a PA and you really need XLR inputs for mikes, which the DA50 doesn't have. Your best bet is to check your local CraigsList--search for "PA"--and let us know what you find.

[samal50]

By the way, could 2 Simmons DA50 drum amps be "chained" together for more power or "stereo" sound? I've read of bass amps being chained together or "stacked" (a 2x10 with a 4x10, etc.).

[DeepEnd]

You can connect two cabs to a bass amp and get more speaker area--the part that moves air. And a given amp can usually put out more power into a lighter load--most amps connect multiple speakers in parallel, which results in lower impedance, half for identical speakers. But what you're talking about is called ."bridging" and you can't do that with your amp. You can't even connect an external speaker. Sorry but your amp is what it is. If you want something more capable you'll need to buy another amp.

[samal50]

I shall try to use the Simmons DA50 for my Ashbory bass guitar to see if it's OK. But as for being "marketable" to try out for bands, not sure it will do.

[samal50]

OK, so I got me a Peavey Minimax head along with a Gallien-Kruger Neo 212 II cabinet. I'm curious if this head can actually power any other unpowered cabinet/amp/speakers for other uses such as to power a guitar cab or an unpowered PA speaker (I'm looking into the Yamaha A12M), for vocals or to run a guitar synth pedal with.

[daddymack]

I doubt you will find the DA50, or the Asbory, for that matter, up to the rigors of working with a full band. The DA50 is a solid state 50 watt amp, and will not keep up with an acoustic drum kit. To do that, get teh DA200.

 

Get a bass amp for bass, a guitar amp for guitar...

[daddymack]

yes it can, if the impedance and wattage capabilities are compatible, not identical.. Your MiniMax is a 500W amp, the GK cab is a 600w cabinet, so not a problem. Your Yamaha monitor cab is rated 300W program; 500W peak, so as long as you don't push the bass amp to full, there shouldn't be an issue from that standpoint...but honestly, that is not the best choice of power amp for a vocal monitor.

[Phil O'Keefe]

I have the Simmons DA50 amp which is marketed and made for electronic drum kits, but can it actually be used for keyboards and synthesizers as well or are the specs of this amp SPECIFIC to what it's marketed to be used for (in this case an electronic drum kit)?

 

Although I have seen the Peavey VYPYR VIP 3 100W 1x12 amp sold as a guitar modeling combo amp that can "morph" into a bass guitar amp, to an acoustic, and to an electric amp.

 

There's two main components that come into play here - the amp itself, and the speakers and speaker cabinet that the amp is paired with.

 

The amp is usually not a major issue, outside of having sufficient power for the situation at hand - a five watt practice amp isn't usually going to cut it in a large club unless you mike it through the PA system to give it more volume. Most modern (and even most vintage) amps have a full-range frequency response that will easily amplify whatever instrument level source you want to feed them.

 

The issue is usually in the speakers.

 

Electric guitar speakers have limited frequency response - usually in the 70Hz - 6kHz range, give or take a bit. That significantly "colors" the sound. Feed an electric into an acoustic guitar amp, which will more likely be loaded with a more full-range (~40Hz - 18kHz or so) speaker system (cone woofer + piezo tweeter is a common pairing) and it's not going to sound like the typical "electric guitar" sound that everyone's familiar with.

 

Bass amps, keyboard amps and amps intended for use with electronic drum kits will typically use more full-range types of speaker setups, which gives those instruments a more natural sound - running a keyboard into a guitar amp will kill some of the high frequencies and will result in less natural sounding keyboard tones.

 

Another potential issue is the ability of the speaker to reproduce what you're feeding it. Put too much power in, or too much low frequency information and a speaker that isn't designed to handle it will exceed its design limits and fail. Examples include trying to use a speaker rated for 15W RMS with an amp that's putting out 50W RMS, or trying to feed a loud low frequency sound source like a bass guitar into a guitar amp. The guitar amp might be able to handle the bass okay if you keep the volume level low (although since it doesn't reproduce the lowest two octaves of the audible frequency range very well, the bass tone will lack low end fullness), but crank it up too high and poof! Bye bye guitar speaker...

 

In a nutshell, you can usually safely run just about any instrument-level source into a full-range amp / speaker pair, whether that full range system be a PA system, acoustic guitar amp, bass amp, electronic drum kit amp, or keyboard amp. You can run an electric guitar into these systems too and you won't hurt anything, but it's going to sound overly bright and unnatural unless you also use a guitar amp / speaker sim pedal of some sort along with it too.

 

Electric guitar amps should be reserved for electric guitars (and harmonicas). Running a keyboard, bass, or electronic drum kit into a guitar amp is risky - you might not hurt anything if you keep the volume level down low, but if you crank it up, you risk blowing a speaker with a loud bass transient. Acoustic guitars are generally safe to run into electric guitar amps, but the lack of high frequencies will result in a less natural acoustic guitar sound than if you used a full-range acoustic guitar amp instead.

[Phil O'Keefe]

BTW, there are a few exceptions to the electric vs acoustic guitar amp limitations I mentioned above. For example, the Line 6 Spider V amp is made for electric guitars and has a full range speaker system built-in, and it works fine with acoustic guitars too. All of the guitar tones are created with modeling technology, and they use the amp's built-in speaker and amp sims; models for acoustic guitar are also included in the factory presets.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/forum/...-review-xpress

[samal50]

Daddymack, I agree with you. I didn't bother to look first as to what amp wattage should be MINIMUM when it comes to playing live on stage (because I assumed it's the venue's responsibility), but now I kinda have some clues. I spoke with a few booking agents at local bars that have bands play there and he told me most bands play for free and must bring their own PA speakers. "Clubs" on the other hand will have their own PA.

 

Now, the Simmons DA200 is only 200 watts; is that actually loud enough for an electronic drum kit? I've considered the DA350, which is 350 watts and weighs about the same as the DA200 (60 pounds), so why not?

 

Although the DA200 I think has a 12" woofer, and the DA350 only has a 10" woofer similar to the DA50 but it has 2 separate satellite speakers. I'm not sure if the bigger speakers in the DA200 would actually be better sounding than the much louder DA350.

 

I've been curious how loud acoustic drums are so I get an idea if 200 watts of electronic drum amp power is actually enough power or has about the same amount of loudness as an acoustic drum set (with no mic'ing).

 

These wattage stuff can be confusing sometimes because for a bass cab, a 200 watt may seem little or for use for "coffee house" only.