Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hey all. Looking to pick up either the CAD Pro-4 set of mics or the Digital Reference DRDK4 set. Can get either set for $70. We'll be using a Shure Beta mic on our kick, not the one that comes with either of these packs. Just need the snare and 2 tom mics. I know they aren't the best out there, but choosing between these 2 which of these would you guys recommend? We'll be using them for live stage use only, in bar and club type venues. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 i'd take the $70, add $10 to it and buy one sm57. seriously they are $79 just use the one sm57 for a gig or two until you get enough to buy a 3 pack of e604's for around $325. then you have your drums mics and a spare 57 for whatever you need, like a guitar amp or a kazoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 i'd take the $70, add $10 to it and buy one sm57. seriously they are $79just use the one sm57 for a gig or two until you get enough to buy a 3 pack of e604's for around $325. then you have your drums mics and a spare 57 for whatever you need, like a guitar amp or a kazoo. Coaster what makes the e604s better than the 57s? I'm seriously asking here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 they sound a little snappier but not "better" really, just more fine tuned for application. the thing that makes them "better" is the size and mount that comes with them. i have gone back and forth between e604 and sm57 on snare. it totally depends on the snare sound and layout of the kit; its hard to get a 57 in there sometimes and nearly impossible on toms (i use one on our drummers floor tom with a D-vice clamp - and it works but i wouldnt want to have four of these setups on a kit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Well...I'm not the one buying them and this is what our drummer will spend...and even talking him into this was a chore. So...assuming we go with one of these 2 sets...does either one do any better than the other? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 who knows? i dont think anyone here owns that level of gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 How big of a room are you playing? Most of the time, the drums are loud enuff that I don't even mic the whole kit. When I did, it was such overkill for some places and it just cluttered the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mogwix Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 So...assuming we go with one of these 2 sets...does either one do any better than the other? Save your (the drummer's) money, and don't bother. If you really feel the need for drum mics, then that's an investment you should make IMO. A beta 52A and an SM57 makes for a great starter mic kit, then save up for a set of e604's and maybe a cheap pair of condensers and you've got a great mic kit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members formula428 Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I feel as though trying to position SM57's on suspended toms would be a losing battle. I have several 57's, and I just don't care for the mid-frequency sound compared to my EV 468s, or even the Audix D2/D4's for that matter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I can't stand how snobby this forum is sometimes. Personally I don't give a rat's ass about drum mics...was just looking for a straight answer to see if I could help someone out. I realize these aren't top of the line and there might be other solutions "that would only cost him a little more money now and then we could save up and buy something awesome later blah blah blah"...but that's not what I asked. It's annoying how if you don't spend top dollar and have top of the line gear like all the pros on here and you ask for advice, all you do is get patronized and talked down to. And I'm not just talking about my posts...I've read many others of the same nature and the people on here can be pretty rude. Ever think of just answering someone's question without patronizing or judging them if they're not working with unlimited budgets and the best gear money can buy? I said in my original post, "I know these aren't the best quality" so there really isn't a need to reiterate that and say "save up for this" and "you could get this for only $350" and blah blah blah. I'm not even the one buying them so you guys are wasting your breath. A simple, "There's pretty much no difference. Neither set is all that great." would've sufficed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I never said anything about buying anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I never said anything about buying anything. My rant was not directed at you brother. And don't get me wrong...there's lots of great info on here from all you guys. It's just that sometimes that attitude that these comments come across is rude. "Don't buy that garbage and just save up and spend 5 times the amount on this" is not really practical adivce considering my original question, especially when I already stated I knew these mics aren't of great quality. "Who knows? Nobody here buys that junk." Why are you wasting time posting that? If your knowledge of the question that was asked is none, then don't bother answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Ryan. Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I can't stand how snobby this forum is sometimes. Personally I don't give a rat's ass about drum mics...was just looking for a straight answer to see if I could help someone out. I realize these aren't top of the line and there might be other solutions "that would only cost him a little more money now and then we could save up and buy something awesome later blah blah blah"...but that's not what I asked.It's annoying how if you don't spend top dollar and have top of the line gear like all the pros on here and you ask for advice, all you do is get patronized and talked down to. And I'm not just talking about my posts...I've read many others of the same nature and the people on here can be pretty rude. Ever think of just answering someone's question without patronizing or judging them if they're not working with unlimited budgets and the best gear money can buy? I said in my original post, "I know these aren't the best quality" so there really isn't a need to reiterate that and say "save up for this" and "you could get this for only $350" and blah blah blah. I'm not even the one buying them so you guys are wasting your breath.A simple, "There's pretty much no difference. Neither set is all that great." would've sufficed. You answered this yourself. Anywho... I spent $150 on the PG 4 piece kit a while back. I never use it. Its too hard to get any useful sounds out of. I happen to have 57s now that are a lot easier to work with (sound wise). Seriously your best bet (if you're never gonna spend any money ever again on this set up and that is your budget no ifs ands or buts...) might be to just pick a nice mic pair to put up over head and use that to mic the whole kit. But I promise, micing each drum with lame mics is not fun for anyone. I tried it. Its a hassle. It gets you no where. So try that or go with your own answer, which is... both will sound the same no matter what and you'll have some fun eq'ing them to get a noise you can barely tolerate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 And to answer your non-rude question Rezrover...the rooms we're playing are large enough where we need drum mics or the sound will disappear most definitely. We will not be using these for the smaller bars, aside from our kick and possibly the snare also if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 What kind of PA will you be using it with? What are your expectations? The reason sometimes spending more money is so that you end up with something more useable (or useable at all). Either of those kits will work ok if you do not have very high expectations. You do need to have a PA that's capable of reproducing drums, otherwise don't bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 The e604's are tiny and come with clips for drum rims. You can position them easily and out of the drummer's way, instead of a big stupid SM57 either on a stand or hanging precariously from the drum using the expensive Shure mounts. As far as sound goes, SM57's have kind of a honky midrange and drop off relatively quick below 100Hz. It works great for electric guitars, but make toms sound kind of papery. With proper positioning and EQ they'll sound great on toms, but they're clumsy. e604's sound a lot like MD421's. They have a pretty flat response with a little bit of a presence peak and a response that's pretty tight and clear overall. e604's work great for a lot of other things as well... hand drums, sax, horns, guitar amps, bass amps... whatever. I have found the 57 to be a pretty darn good mic for snare and toms, still rider friendly and if you have to use stands, no big deal really. I don't get the honky mid and rolled off lows that you do, maybe you have some fakes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 What kind of PA will you be using it with? What are your expectations?The reason sometimes spending more money is so that you end up with something more useable (or useable at all). Either of those kits will work ok if you do not have very high expectations. You do need to have a PA that's capable of reproducing drums, otherwise don't bother. Well...I don't have PA specs as these larger venues all have (seemingly pretty darn nice sounding) systems built in. Each venue has 2 large subs and matching mains...plenty enough system to handle reproducing drums I have to think. The other bands I've seen at these venues had their kits mic'd and running through them and they sounded pretty good to me. One drummer I've talked to a couple of times had all SM57's on his snare and toms and I thought they sounded good. Believe me if it were up to me I wouldn't be going with a cheap kit, but this is what we have to work with now and I'm not even the one buying them, so it is what it is! My expectations: hopefully we'll be able to mix in the snare and toms and make them heard in the mix, even if the overall quality of the sound isn't 100% perfect, I'm thinking it will at least be half decent and better than nothing in a large room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Is there a place you could rent some mics to get you by and sort of "test drive" so you're not stuck with anything just yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members StratGuy22 Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 It's strange that the venue doesn't have drum mics. Maybe it's not strange. There's lots of 3 e604 kits for $300 on eBay. Or maybe even buy them individually as he can afford them. Here's one for $92. Offer him $82. http://cgi.ebay.com/Sennheiser-e604-Microphone-E604-Drum-Snare-Tom-mic-604_W0QQitemZ260758223621QQcategoryZ41464QQvarZQQcmdZViewItem I say bide your time, get the e604's individually and then use 3 at once... Renting is another great idea. I think I can rent a 57 for $6 for a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Is there a place you could rent some mics to get you by and sort of "test drive" so you're not stuck with anything just yet? Well...that is an idea. I'm thinking though, that if he buys them from musiciansfriend or whatever, we can just send them back if they totally blow and just flat out won't work for us. If they're decent, we can keep them. Not expecting anything better than 'decent' though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted March 31, 2011 Author Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 It's strange that the venue doesn't have drum mics. Yeah...the casino and the really higher class places have everything PA related including mics, stands, cables, etc. These places I'm talking about have speakers, amps, a board and a snake ran to the stage, but we have to supply everything from the snake outward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Darga19, I can understand your frustration, but really,,,, do you expect to find "critiques" on a $79. drum-kit???? A lot of the guys here make their living providing sound. Bottom-of-the-barrel mics are just not an option. It's got nothing to do with "snobism", and everything to do with sound-quality and reliability. I just went through a major search for drum-mics, and for band practices, I settled on an inexpensive 7-piece kit from ElectroVoice. (PL-series) I was able to find this kit for $369. Canadian. (2 condenser o'heads, 4 tom-mics,1 kick) and a nice case to boot. To put things in perspective, using my studio drum-mics for comparison, a single Sennheiser MD-421 tom mic, costs more than that entire ElectroVoice kit, and I've got two of them. ($399.ea.) My overheads are $900./pair. Different strokes I guess, and it depends on your priorities/needs. If you're genuinely looking for critiques on a $79. kit, I suspect you'll find plenty on the retailers' "product reviews". By the end of the first sentence of the "glowing review", you usually become painfully aware that the writer has absolutely no experience with anything else, and is usually justifying his purchasing decision.'The greaaaatest kit,,,everrrrr", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Hey all. Looking to pick up either the CAD Pro-4 set of mics or the Digital Reference DRDK4 set. Can get either set for $70. We'll be using a Shure Beta mic on our kick, not the one that comes with either of these packs. Just need the snare and 2 tom mics.I know they aren't the best out there, but choosing between these 2 which of these would you guys recommend? We'll be using them for live stage use only, in bar and club type venues.Thanks! It's sometimes hard for folks to realize how much manufacturers will let us hang ourselves. I would imagine that CAD at some price point makes okay mics, but there's a market for people that want a set of mics at any cost, even if they don't really work. On a lark I purchased an entry level set of CAD mics a while back. They were on sale for $200.00, and I thought (based on recommendations) that they might be the exception to the rule - they were not! The rule of course being that you get what you pay for. There was not one useable mic in the bunch - nothing! Add to that the fact that the XLR end didn't fit properly into the mics or got stuck there once it did. I had purchaed the set for rough and tumble gigs but even those have to sound better than crap. Coaster had it right. Get one SM57 if that's all the money you have, and use it for an overhead or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Unalaska Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 Definitly not the Digital Reference mics (farmed out by audiotechnica), the CAD I'd consider. Really though the best bet is the EWI drum mic kit but it's out of budget. For around a 100 I'd get 2 small diaphram condensers (behringer C-2s? C-5s?) and use them as overheads. Then get a 57 for snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gordon Sound Posted March 31, 2011 Members Share Posted March 31, 2011 I have found the 57 to be a pretty darn good mic for snare and toms, still rider friendly and if you have to use stands, no big deal really. I don't get the honky mid and rolled off lows that you do, maybe you have some fakes? Mine sound Fine as well, Sounds like you have tape on the phase port Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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