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Compact acoustic-electric 6-string suggestions?


Drummer44

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I'm thinking of something to take along while traveling... that will sound decent by itself and will also amp up nicely whenever I feel like it. Ideally not huge, especially not as "fat" as some (but probably not as thin as a Les Paul)... single cut-away...

 

I currently "play" (loosely phrased) a Gibson BluesHawk 6-string, a Ric 360/12, and an Ovation Legend LX 12-string, latter being slightly too large for my tastes (and physique), but it's one I've got and it sounds good.

 

No particular budget in mind yet, but I don't mind paying for quality within reason.

 

Ideas?

 

-D44

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Over the years there have been a number of attempts at a "travel guitar" - often not very successful. You need a certain volume of air in the box to sound acceptable so guitars like Martin's Backpacker end up sounding pretty tinny (plus they are awkward to hold and play). If you want to stick with a standard looking guitar your best options might be any of the good parlor models (which is kind of a loose term, I use it to define a guitar with a small body, usually a single ought Martin or small concert size, with a shorter scale, again, usually around 24.5). A parlor can have a remarkably good full sound and some are amazingly loud. Add a good pickup (K&K) and you've got the E side covered.

 

An attractive option if you want to consider a parlor is the Rainsong carbon fiber parlor - it is almost bullet proof as far as humidity and possible damage. A friend has two, he keeps one at his lake cabin and just throws the other in the back seat when he is on the road

 

http://www.rainsong.com/parlor/series.html

 

An interesting idea for a travel guitar is the Yamaha Silent guitar - no acoustic at all but you can play it thru and amp or headphones.

 

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/guitars_basses/silent_guitar/index.html

 

Several manufacturers have made guitars that the necks are designed to be removed or to fold over with a hinge. I can't think of any right now (and I'm not sure how much I would trust that joint) - I'm sure that a web search would turn up something.

 

Next option is a ukulele. Yes, really. They are tuned in the same order as the top four strings of a guitar so you don't have to learn new chord positions. An inexpensive baritone uke is a popular travel instrument for folks hiking the Pacific Crest trail.

 

Last though is a mandolin. I don't play much mando but when I travell I take mine along (it forces me to practice it). Its small enough to fit in the overhead bin and relatively quiet if I want to play in a hotel room.

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Thanks, some useful options to think about. Hadn't really thought a "travel" size would be necessary, just "not huge" and more compact would be better.

 

I do see there are some travel models out there aside from the Martin Backpacker... which doesn't really speak to me: Yamaha APX T2, Takamine Taka-Mini, some Taylors (although latter without cutaways), maybe more. Reviews for sound quality aren't great...

 

Hadn't heard the term "parlor" in this context before...

 

And also hadn't realized the Uke is tuned like the guitar top 4. I think they're usually nylon strings? And mandolin is completely different tuning altogether?

 

In a web search, I stumbled across a Gretsch G100CE, can't really tell about relative sizes (many Gretsch electrics I've played were relatively large) and reviews for sound quality vary. I mention this one more because it just caught my eye as a different take on acoustic guitars...

 

Edit: Adding a bit, after the fact... The dimension I have the most trouble with is bowl depth (using Ovation terminology). IOW, thinner generally works better for me. The Ovation "Super Shallow" bowl contours seem to be worth a look, although I already know how difficult it is to actually hang on to an Ovation when trying to play one of those rascals. And I've already got an Ovation.... :)

 

-D44

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Both Yamaha (the APX series) and Ibanez (the AEG series) make "thinline" guitars that might be in line with what you need. I can't find specs but I'm pretty sure the Takamine FCX body style is fairly thin too. As for ukuleles, only baritones are tuned like a guitar. Other ukuleles are tuned G C E A.

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I guess there is a difference between a travel instrument and "take along while traveling" from your first post. I road trip a lot - hiking and climbing and skiing and I usually take a guitar with me - my choice is an old hundred dollar Yamaha that if it fell off the end of the world it would be no big deal. Its a full sized guitar, I've done a neck rest on it so its very playable, and unfortunately its made out of wood so it requires a certain amount of care (like I can't leave it in the car if I'm out doing something). But certainly that fits the definition of "take along".

 

If I was buying a guitar to fill that role it would certainly be the Rainsong, and the smaller size just makes it a bit easier to deal with. Rainsongs (and several others) are molded carbon fiber, they are indestructible and actually sound pretty good,. They are a bit expensive however.

 

However we also talk about a "travel guitar" as something small, lightweight, probably not too expensive that is designed for travel. I should fit in the overhead bin on an airplane or you should be able to strap in on a backpack if you were doing a long hike. Thats where the Baby Taylors and Martin Backpackers and similar fit in - compromises have been made in the design and sound to make them easy to travel with.

 

Also, body depth factors into the air volume in the box which we've already said is necessary for a certain quality of sound. You can make them thinner but you'll give something away. The electric sound doesn't suffer

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I just sold my Yamaha Apx1 (I think it was that model, on left) to a travelin' friend. Not all that much unplugged, but decent thru a little amp, like the Fly3. In the middle of photo is Crafter TRV quilted maple, made in Korea, quality build, materials & pickup, Breedlove regular dread for size comparison on right). I just put on ball end nylon strings on TRV, which tames some of that excess treble from size and maple. Almost like some flamenco git. Really fun. I suggest trying nylon strings on a travel... classical usually smaller than steel stringers. Anyone tried the Guild foray into small body somewhat travel oriented guitars?

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Thanks, guys. Checking specs on the Yamaha, Ibanez, and Takamine "thinline" options now. And baritone ukuleles. I listened to some videos on Takamine's Taka-Mini yesterday, maybe a candidate, too. Didn't realize Guild may have an option; I played an acoustic Guild for a while and a bandmate played an electric (F-hole, as I recall), but would have been about 50 years ago now; didn't know they were back and viable. I am semi-partial to Yamaha; we've had good luck with their pianos, clarinets, acoustic drums, e-drum pad, etc...

 

But my original mention of take-along was probably over-statement ref the "travel" idea. I'm mostly thinking more of "not a dreadnought" or "not an Ovation deep contour" -- or anything where the soundbox is roughly 1/2 again as large and 4X as deep as my BluesHawk or even the 360/12. Something I can take along as a distraction when visiting some of the family boors... (One option I already have, probably on track for this year's upcoming holiday visit:: the BluesHawk played through a tiny Fender battery amp; the amp will just about fit in the palm of my hand...)

 

But Freeman, I do really appreciate the comment about the Yamaha SLG. Hadn't realized that existed, although it does remind me of their electric violin I once saw someone playing... It may well speak to another specific instance I hadn't yet thought more about solving, and that is travel by boat, where storage space is at a premium and the high-humidity saltwater atmosphere can be an issue. The carbon fiber ideas (like RainSong) just seem too expensive for a hack (me) whereas the SLG could well be just about fine. Another instance where that little battery amp can be fine. I'll study more on that.

 

Ideally I'll find some somewhere to play a bit on some of these, since we're be near a decent Sam Ash and GC soon...

 

-D44

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OK, I think I have a little better idea of what you want. If its primarily body depth that is an issue there are a couple of other options, including the shallow bowl Ovations

 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CE481

 

and several Godins

 

http://www.godinguitars.com/godina6ultrap.htm

 

As I said earlier, reducing the air volume in the box does change the sound (its called Helmholtz resonance, the fundimental pitch that the air wants to resonate at) and its also affected by the size of the sound hole (think about blowing across the mouth of a beer bottle and a wide mouth jar). You can get around that with processing in the signal chain but if you are looking for pure acoustic sound you might be disappointed.

 

Definitely need to play them first - and of course, please report back.

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Yep, I hope to play several first, depending on what I can find. I'm aware acoustic sound will be impacted by the smaller box; just thinking there are times when the simplicity of an acoustic -- pick it up, play 'til tired, put it down, usually for an audience of one (me) -- rings lots of chimes... and the electric part is fall-back for when I want larger tone or more volume for one reason or another.

 

In the meantime, I've seen there is (was?) a PRS SE Alex somebody-or-other thinline acoustic, maybe acoustic-electric (can't tell much from the PRS website) that might be worth a look. If they (still?) exist. Info about the pickup/pre-amp, if it exists (-ed) is so far slim to zip, doesn't sound like it incorporates (-ed) a tuner or EQ... unlike the Yamaha and Takamine models. A built-in tuner just seems like a nice-to-have, partly since I have one o the Ovation, and partly just because it's possible so why not? EQ seems less of a priority for me; after all, it is (would be) an acoustic... and effects (if necessary?) can easily be provided differently (amp, pedals, PA, whatever) when in electric mode.

 

It would be reasonably easy to grab the first super-shallow Ovation that comes along; they're fairly slippery, though, almost always gotta play with a strap... Not insurmountable, and the synthetic back would at least be compatible with that whole boat idea.

 

A small/slim acoustic-electric would probably be about the easiest option for our boat, except for storage. The SLG seems like another step toward complication (amp required) but would be better for storage. I suspect if I actually get off the dime and get a chance to trial some of the thinline models, I could maybe start with one of those, and then graduate to an SLG specifically for the boat if necessary. In the meantime, I'm thinking the "take-along" acoustic-electric and the "boat guitar of some sort" are more likely two different problems, may or may not be perfectly fixed with one solution.

 

BTW, I see most (all?) of the "parlor" guitars have no cut-away. My ideal would have a cut-away... very much just a personal visual preference...

 

-D44

 

 

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Thanks. I was having trouble figuring out which "small body" Guild you were pointing to; glossed over everything with the word "Jumbo" in it. :)

 

Not seeing a cut-away version, which would be my preference, maybe not cast in concrete. Useful to see actual body dimensions, though.

 

Haven't been able to find body dimensions for several of the candidates. I'm spoiled a bit by the small size of my Gibson: approx 16" length, 13" width, and maybe 1½" deep. Not at all on the same planet as an acoustic, of course, but the compact size fits my build better. It's maybe 3x the weight of an acoustic-electric, though, and unplugged... even though semi-hollow, it sounds pretty much like an electric, unplugged. And within reason, dimensions (and probably that cut-away thing) will take a back seat to sound quality anyway...

 

My home area is PRS country... factory just up the road and over the bridge... so if I don't find that SE Alex-whatever model on this upcoming short trip, I may call around here when I get back, see if anyone has one in stock that I could try, too.

 

-D44

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I've played the Yamaha APXT2, APX500III, and SLG (nylon version); Ibanez AEG models; Ovation Celebrity super shallow; LTD TL-6; Fender FA-135CE; Taylor GC Mini... all played acoustic only (not amped)... and then played through an evening on a Martin DR. Latter, of course, sounded pretty good, as did the little Taylor. I've also compared tech specs for the Epiphone PR-5E and the PRS SE Alex Lifeson models.

 

The travel and 3/4 size guitars weren't all that comfortable; small enough, but they changed my side to side balance, somehow... so those and similar "travel" guitars are out of my picture. That includes the small Martins and the "Backpacker" that I also looked at briefly at the stores.

 

An exception might be the Yamaha SLG, if one were to consider that a "travel" guitar. Felt good, played well... hold that thought... because it's really fairly silent (duh!) when not monitored through headphones or not amped. The LTD TL-6 was only a step louder; comfortable to hold, but I suspect it's really intended to be played amped all the time, with the outcome mostly sounding acoustic-like. (And all their tech info about reducing feedback, etc etc etc.)

 

The Yamaha APX500III and the Ibanez AEG both sounded adequate for the acoustic part of my original intentions: pick up, play 'til tired of it (hear it without amplification), put down. Not huge volume or projection, but that's not unexpected. The Fender was probably adequate, too, but there was something about it that wasn't overwhelming, probably the feel of the set-up (or lack thereof). Haven't found a local Epiphone PR-5E to audition, but from the specs and various on-line reviews, I'm suspecting it would be equally adequate. I'm guessing these are fairly equivalent in quality -- and they're not particularly expensive in the first place -- unless someone raises a red flag about one or another.

 

Almost ditto for the PRS SE AL model, although the electronic control placement sounds fiddly (and there's no tuner) and it's almost twice the price, possibly not twice the sound. That includes a case, though. I don't actually mind the price, if for some reason the product is that much better, but... I'll have to look around to learn if anyone local has one to try. Could happen, given we're not too far from the factory.

 

The Ovation was just not a good fit. The super shallow bowl makes the thing even slipperier than the deep bowl version I have already, and I'm not gonna chase a guitar around all night long... Sounded OK, maybe as good as some of the others, although I didn't give it much time to impress me.

 

As of just now, I'm thinking I could get an APX500III, or an AEG, or a PR-5E and call it good. Red flags invited, as well as "votes" for or against :)

 

And I may modify all that if I find a PRS SE AL to play, depending on the outcome.

 

And then, if whichever doesn't work out (during a trial run) to be small enough for that other "take on the boat" (limited storage) problem I mentioned... then I can reinvestigate the Yamaha SLG... which I actually liked quite a lot.

 

I'm hampered a bit by not knowing some brands, reps, relative quality, etc. When I started in the early '60s, there are only about 6 guitar brands toward which many of us aspired: Gibson, Fender, Guild, and Gretsch were the big 4, plus Rickenbacker... and Martin for all the folk singers. There were other good guitars, of course (Epiphone, for example) but IIRC those 6 were the bee's knees, aka nifty, aka cool, aka all that other stuff. ("Awesome" hadn't been invented yet.) That of course means I dunno so much about Yamaha (guitars), Ibanez, Takamine, Taylor, PRS, LTD (and/or ESP), Squire... and about half of the other guitars I glanced at over the last week or so...

 

Research continues...

 

-D44

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A guy I know from church has an older APX model that has a composite back/sides along Ovation lines. No idea what model it is but you might be well served if you can find one in good condition. Other than that, Yamaha gets a lot of love hereabouts. For the record, I'm a big Ibanez acoustic fanboy myself.

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And now I've played a new PRS SE Angelus Alex Lifeson, aka model SE A15AL.

 

Hmmm...

 

Given that I haven't been able to play everything during the same session, I can only go by memory and impressions over the last week or so...

 

First, some factoids: the A15AL body seems to be up to an inch longer and a half inch wider than the AEG (I've not found those two measurements for an APX) and about a half inch to 3/4 of an inch deeper than both others. Most of that extra depth is in the lower bout, i.e., toward the tail. I haven't found the Ephiphone to play, but the PRS measurements are just a tad bigger in all three dimensions (but "less bigger," compared to the APX or AEG). And even though the A15AL is not exactly the very most compact of the candidates, there's not actually a lot of difference... although I could feel it in my right shoulder afterwards...

 

Anyway, my feeling (as of this mo) is that the PRS sounds better (in acoustic mode) and the neck/fingerboard feels better (to me) than the Yamaha APX and the Ibanez AEG, . The PRS seems to project more, overall acoustic volume is louder (even playing soflty), and each string has a more clear yet nicely open sound. In contrast, the AEG seemed a bit choked, and the APX would be somewhere in the middle.

 

Not at all unexpected, I think. The PRS has the (slightly) largest soundbox (especially in the lower bout), the APX is in the middle, and the AEG is smallest/shallowest. I remember the APX and AEG tone as "adequate" whereas the PRS tone is, to me, "attractive."

 

PRS electronics on this model are pretty basic: a pick-up in there somewhere, and volume and tone controls -- which turned out to be not all that difficult to work, possibly because there's not much one can do with each. Roll one way or the other, up or down in volume on one control, fatter or brighter in tone on the other control, that's it. Sounded pretty good through the shop's amp, though. (Didn't notice what the amp was). No onboard tuner, but then I've got tuners.

 

Can't compare the quality of amped sounds to the other models, since I didn't plug in when I was noodling on 'em...

 

The back and side wood isn't something I've seen before; looks nice. The neck is bound, but that's not really visible in pics. The binding on the body, front and back, is I think some kind of tortoiseshell (??) color, and the fleck accents embedded throughout don't show up much in the various photos I've seen on-line...

 

Hmmm...

 

-D44

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The back and side wood on the PRS is something called dao. I've seen it before, Alvarez made a couple of models with dao backs, sides and tops, but I haven't played any of them.

Not to muddy the waters but I also thought of the Breedlove Discovery Concert CE, which comes in at 3 3/4" deep, a tad less than the PRS.

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Thanks. I knew the wood is dao, from the specs, but haven't ever seen it before. And I dunno much about various wood. Google tells me it's Dractontomelon dao, aka New Guinea walnut, aka Paldao... but that didn't really tell me anything immediately useful. :) Sounded good, looked nice.

 

Checking Breedlove model specs now. (In between slightly modifying our music room set-up.)

 

-D44

 

 

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Larrivee Parlor guitars are really nice too. They used to be like 500 bucks.

 

I guess like 1000-1500 bucks now was 500 bucks back in 2000 something.

 

 

You can still buy a Gibson L00 these days. but cha ching, they ain't cheap.

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Pretty much indestructible, well almost.

 

I know a guy ghat has both Rain Song guitars and CA, they are very loud, heavier than you thing and not as warm as wood.

 

Just some small talk.

 

[video=youtube;BkzmngPpXHw]

[video=youtube;7u5IfLmo-j8]

[video=youtube;4K7HDPX8meU]

 

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90 years ago this would have traveled nicely. I saw Jeff Foucault play one live, it sounded amazing.

 

Mule Resophonic is kind of a newer company that does amazing old skool resonators.

 

Gibson killed Dobro and I'm not sure if they even have the tooling any more. Might have went down the river with there banjo tooling.

 

[video=youtube;6pATxzqmMWE]

[video=youtube;zqDkUKq4R4I]

 

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The "bird in hand" approach in is play.

 

NGD!

 

Wifey got me the PRS Lifeson for Christmas. She remembered I described the Yamaha and the Ibanez as sounding "adequate" and feeling "OK" and describing the PRS as sounding "nice" and feeling "good" when I first played it. She knew I was also considering various dimensions, but she also pointed out that a quarter inch here and a half inch there... weren't really huge differences...

 

And the PRS that we found to try was in a very local guitar shop which meant semi-instant delivery. That was a very unexpected find, actually, given the shop is very small, hasn't got lots of room for inventory, and the model has been discontinued --

 

Nice lady!

 

And I have to admit, the PRS does sound nice and it does feel good. :)

 

We've also discovered an another advantage, one I hadn't thought of before: when she plays her grand piano, which is not in our normal music room, I can noodle along more easily, i.e., without have to tune a 12-string or drag an amp around for one of the electrics.

 

Anyway, thanks again, all, for your thoughts and comments. I think that not only helped me learn about candidates to consider, but it also helped me pin down in my own mind how I could best prioritize various criteria.

 

The one remaining part is about how this will fit in on the boat travels... but I'll be able to start testing for that in a few weeks. There's still the Yamaha SLG out there in the wings, should that become necessary...

 

-D44

 

 

 

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http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/musical-instruments/guitars-basses/el_nylon_guitars/799/9142

 

I bought this cross-over when transitioning from steel string to nylon. I gifted it to my son when I switched from it to straight classical. Take a look at one if available to you. I can't say it sounded bad unplugged when I bought it because my frame of reference was a history with some pretty nice sounding steel string guitars at the time. I've since been disconnected from steel string for quite a while and have played it more recently. It sounds fine to me dry but really shines plugged. Anywho, the more you know...

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