Members abzurd Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 I didn't even think about that. It could be that the K box just isn't optimized for the woofer. Kind of like how RCF 500 series boxes were the exact same size for both the 12" and 15" drivers. The 12" actually had better low end as the box was too small for the 15" to extend. So QSC is marketing 2 different products that share all the same guts. Interesting that the KW is that much of a premium. Marketed as the premium speaker, at $1099 MAP, the KW122 is priced 38% higher than the $799 K12. The only difference seems to be the cabinet itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 Interesting choice of ferrite magnets in all the QSC boxes. I guess if you take all that weight off with the chip amp you can use cheaper magnets and still produce a light box. I've heard a K series but haven't handled one. Is it a thin walled box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 Another cost factor:The KW are manufactured in Costa Mesa. The K are manufactured in China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members soul-x Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 I've heard a K series but haven't handled one. Is it a thin walled box? They have a much more solid feel than, say, a Mackie SRM. You knock on them and it's a reasonably solid sound. The Mackies sound like tupperware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcastar Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 The KW's also have 2 years more "R&D" into their internal EQ / DSP on the amp. Another factor in why they sound better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 The KW's also have 2 years more "R&D" into their internal EQ / DSP on the amp. Another factor in why they sound better. Maybe, but that's not an absolute. The K Series DSP could have been changed more than once by now. QSC would never admit to it. That's why companies say their specs may change without notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dcastar Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 Maybe, but that's not an absolute. The K Series DSP could have been changed more than once by now. QSC would never admit to it. That's why companies say their specs may change without notice. Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 I'm not sure why the PRX get so much love around here. When I heard them, they were nothing special to my ears. But YMMV. The QSC sounded more hi-fi..and also did not sound harsh when pushed to my ears (which seems to be a common opinion around HC). I am still searching for mains for FOH as well. I am going to try and listen to the Yamaha DSRs and the Peaveys with the ribbon tweeter before making any final decisions. I would be interested in your thoughts after hearing the remaining speakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted May 18, 2011 Members Share Posted May 18, 2011 Interesting choice of ferrite magnets in all the QSC boxes. I guess if you take all that weight off with the chip amp you can use cheaper magnets and still produce a light box. No "chip amp" in the ones I've taken apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 19, 2011 Members Share Posted May 19, 2011 No "chip amp" in the ones I've taken apart. Sorry, I assumed that's what they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themusician Posted May 19, 2011 Members Share Posted May 19, 2011 I would be interested in your thoughts after hearing the remaining speakers. One...I was not able to try the Peavey Impulses as GC in Southfield didn't have them. I then tested the PRXs (again) and was not impressed (again)..then I tried the QSC 152s and ok..now we are getting somewhere...kept pushing em...not ear fatigue (for me at least) and not sounding harsh...really like the the QSCs!!..getting excited!!!.....ok ..next...flip over to the Yamaha DSR 115s and HOLY HELL!...these sounded phenomenal!!..better that the QSCs..(at least to my ears)..my friend was with me and said the same thing...tried the DSR 112s and they were eh..maybe cuz i listened to the 115s first, but man..those 115s have some good low end..nice crisp high end..and the mids aren't washed out at all...it seems like they will be the ones that i eventually purchase..trying to find a good sub to go with them now that wont break the bank..I was not impressed with any of the subs they had there...ps..the yammie sub that is in this dsr series for these speakers..was really...ummm...pathetic to say the least..lol...let me know if you have any questions.. Cheers, B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 One...I was not able to try the Peavey Impulses as GC in Southfield didn't have them. I then tested the PRXs (again) and was not impressed (again)..then I tried the QSC 152s and ok..now we are getting somewhere...kept pushing em...not ear fatigue (for me at least) and not sounding harsh...really like the the QSCs!!..getting excited!!!.....ok ..next...flip over to the Yamaha DSR 115s and HOLY HELL!...these sounded phenomenal!!..better that the QSCs..(at least to my ears)..my friend was with me and said the same thing...tried the DSR 112s and they were eh..maybe cuz i listened to the 115s first, but man..those 115s have some good low end..nice crisp high end..and the mids aren't washed out at all...it seems like they will be the ones that i eventually purchase..trying to find a good sub to go with them now that wont break the bank..I was not impressed with any of the subs they had there...ps..the yammie sub that is in this dsr series for these speakers..was really...ummm...pathetic to say the least..lol...let me know if you have any questions.. Cheers, B Same shop I went to They didn't have the Peavey's when I was there either, but one of the sales guys said that he preferred the DSR's for what that is worth. I run my DSR112's over subs, so the additional bottom on the 115's was not appealing to me since it came along with more size and weight. Having said that, the DSR115 is a great sounding speaker, just not what I was after. I thought that the DSR's sounded similar with respect to the vocal clarity with the DSR112 having slightly better clarity (likely due to the 12" vs 15" speaker) ... to my ears. I also thought that the DSR's sounded better than the JBL's, but I sure wish the DSR's were a bit lighter. If you are planning on using the speakers with subs, I would suggest that you audition them that way with the speakers set flat and the HPF engaged to get a feel for how they will sound live. I made 3 trips to GC before I ended up purchasing the DSRs. Sure would have liked to hear the Peavey though ... you know .... ribbon tweeter and all. If you aren't worried about weight, and want some serious bottom (which seems to be your ear) I would suggest looking into the Yorkies LS800p. Word on the street is that these will knock your socks off (even one of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themusician Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Same shop I went to They didn't have the Peavey's when I was there either, but one of the sales guys said that he preferred the DSR's for what that is worth. I run my DSR112's over subs, so the additional bottom on the 115's was not appealing to me since it came along with more size and weight. Having said that, the DSR115 is a great sounding speaker, just not what I was after. I thought that the DSR's sounded similar with respect to the vocal clarity with the DSR112 having slightly better clarity (likely due to the 12" vs 15" speaker) ... to my ears. I also thought that the DSR's sounded better than the JBL's, but I sure wish the DSR's were a bit lighter. If you are planning on using the speakers with subs, I would suggest that you audition them that way with the speakers set flat and the HPF engaged to get a feel for how they will sound live. I made 3 trips to GC before I ended up purchasing the DSRs. Sure would have liked to hear the Peavey though ... you know .... ribbon tweeter and all. I would be all for trying them that way...problem is, they don't have the sub in store that I want to try it with. ...which unfortunately means for me that I'm guessing...**shrugs**...I did try some of the subs, but man, really disappointing to say the least.......still waiting for someone to chime in with the magical subwoofer that is compact (70-80pds) with some kickass SPL that doesn't cost me an arm and a leg!...anyone?..bueller? Cheers, B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 Depends on your expectations, the 618XLF is a great set of compromises all around IME. I've heard them all and prefer those (or the SRX=718's) I haven't had a client ever have a problem with the 718's, in fact I just added 4 more to the inventory. If you don't care for them, looks like you are kinda short on options then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 Just went to GC tonight and A/B'd the PRX612s against the QSC K and KWs. I thought the JBLs won hands down. The QSCs seemed too harsh when they got pushed. But...what the heck do I know? I guess everyone has their own opinion and ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 The PRX and KW's are in the same league, personal preferences may win out but it's not miles apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 Just went to GC tonight and A/B'd the PRX612s against the QSC K and KWs. I thought the JBLs won hands down. The QSCs seemed too harsh when they got pushed. But...what the heck do I know? I guess everyone has their own opinion and ear. I felt that the KWs were too expensive at ~1100 each .... nearly twice that of the JBL PRX612.I agree with the K12 getting harsh when pushed though. That was my experience as well.My flavor would be the KW's over the PRX, but not at twice the price. The DSR112 is a compromise in my book. The only drawback was the weight (47lbs). I had to take a little off the top since their internal DSP equalization is a bit aggressive on the highs in order to give a hi fi sound in the test rooms (would be my guess). Once you pull a little off the top, they sounded as good as the KW's but were less expensive IMHO.In reality, I think that all of these speakers are in a similar bucket in terms of sound quality. Any soundman could make them sound good with a band. Even the K12's are an excellent speaker as long as you don't push too much.Just take a listen to a few of the cheep speakers GC pushes and you will hear the difference between these.... night and day!I even listened to the comparison with the SRX715 which is one of my favorite speakers. I give the SRX the edge for its great smooth top, but seriously, we are talking shades of grey here .... not night and day IMHO.The jump to on-board DSP in MI gear has really put some serious value into the latest round of powered speakers.As for subs, I thought the JBL PRX618 XLF sounded really good and it was light as a feather! If I were purchasing new subs today, that is where I would be headed. They are much more powerful than the Cerwin Vega CVA18's I will be using tonight (and lighter). The CV's are easily capable of handling the club I am doing tonight (~100).I would guess that the PRX's would handle around 300 with no problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themusician Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 I felt that the KWs were too expensive at ~1100 each .... nearly twice that of the JBL PRX612.I agree with the K12 getting harsh when pushed though. That was my experience as well.My flavor would be the KW's over the PRX, but not at twice the price. The DSR112 is a compromise in my book. The only drawback was the weight (47lbs). I had to take a little off the top since their internal DSP equalization is a bit aggressive on the highs in order to give a hi fi sound in the test rooms (would be my guess). Once you pull a little off the top, they sounded as good as the KW's but were less expensive IMHO.In reality, I think that all of these speakers are in a similar bucket in terms of sound quality. Any soundman could make them sound good with a band. Even the K12's are an excellent speaker as long as you don't push too much.Just take a listen to a few of the cheep speakers GC pushes and you will hear the difference between these.... night and day!I even listened to the comparison with the SRX715 which is one of my favorite speakers. I give the SRX the edge for its great smooth top, but seriously, we are talking shades of grey here .... not night and day IMHO.The jump to on-board DSP in MI gear has really put some serious value into the latest round of powered speakers.As for subs, I thought the JBL PRX618 XLF sounded really good and it was light as a feather! If I were purchasing new subs today, that is where I would be headed. They are much more powerful than the Cerwin Vega CVA18's I will be using tonight (and lighter). The CV's are easily capable of handling the club I am doing tonight (~100).I would guess that the PRX's would handle around 300 with no problem. This bold is the truest of the true!.... I wish I could hear the XLF in person...any where around you seem them here in the D One? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themusician Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 On the subwoofer subject, ...what about the new ELX118P vs. JBL PRX618S-XLF vs. Yorkville LS720P vs. Proel FLASH15SA (which seems to get some love around HC)...anyone have thoughts how these stack up against another? and willing to rank in order of preference and give a reason why? Cheers, B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted May 21, 2011 Members Share Posted May 21, 2011 I felt that the KWs were too expensive at ~1100 each .... nearly twice that of the JBL PRX612.I agree with the K12 getting harsh when pushed though. That was my experience as well.My flavor would be the KW's over the PRX, but not at twice the price. The DSR112 is a compromise in my book. The only drawback was the weight (47lbs). I had to take a little off the top since their internal DSP equalization is a bit aggressive on the highs in order to give a hi fi sound in the test rooms (would be my guess). Once you pull a little off the top, they sounded as good as the KW's but were less expensive IMHO.In reality, I think that all of these speakers are in a similar bucket in terms of sound quality. Any soundman could make them sound good with a band. Even the K12's are an excellent speaker as long as you don't push too much.Just take a listen to a few of the cheep speakers GC pushes and you will hear the difference between these.... night and day!I even listened to the comparison with the SRX715 which is one of my favorite speakers. I give the SRX the edge for its great smooth top, but seriously, we are talking shades of grey here .... not night and day IMHO.The jump to on-board DSP in MI gear has really put some serious value into the latest round of powered speakers.As for subs, I thought the JBL PRX618 XLF sounded really good and it was light as a feather! If I were purchasing new subs today, that is where I would be headed. They are much more powerful than the Cerwin Vega CVA18's I will be using tonight (and lighter). The CV's are easily capable of handling the club I am doing tonight (~100).I would guess that the PRX's would handle around 300 with no problem. I think this sums things up nicely. The main difference in the SRX line is the additional output and slightly better pattern control in the midrange. I would expect roughly 4-6dB of additional useable output from the corresponding SRX boxes (assuming good DSP programming). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members OneEng Posted May 22, 2011 Members Share Posted May 22, 2011 This bold is the truest of the true!.... I wish I could hear the XLF in person...any where around you seem them here in the D One? Sadly, I was in Illinois visiting my family when I heard them, and then it was in a bar with a band, not in a controlled environment. I have heard the 618S which you can hear at nearly any local GC, but it isn't the same. GC has a list of all stores in Michigan here: http://gc.guitarcenter.com/locations/cities.cfm?state=Michigan I would call around and see if any of them have the XLF. Canton and Southfield didn't when I was searching for my tops, but then, I wasn't looking for subs either Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members themusician Posted May 22, 2011 Members Share Posted May 22, 2011 Sadly, I was in Illinois visiting my family when I heard them, and then it was in a bar with a band, not in a controlled environment. I have heard the 618S which you can hear at nearly any local GC, but it isn't the same. GC has a list of all stores in Michigan here: http://gc.guitarcenter.com/locations/cities.cfm?state=MichiganI would call around and see if any of them have the XLF. Canton and Southfield didn't when I was searching for my tops, but then, I wasn't looking for subs either Good luck! The guys at the southfield GC stated that they weren't getting them in stores...but you never know...*shrugs*...I said that's not a very good way to demo a product now is it?...he laughed..lol...(and didn't sell a sub either ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members guitarguy19 Posted May 23, 2011 Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 The guys at the southfield GC stated that they weren't getting them in stores...but you never know...*shrugs*...I said that's not a very good way to demo a product now is it?...he laughed..lol...(and didn't sell a sub either ...) Hey man. I'm in this area too. GC Southfield said that none of the GCs stock the xlf models. I've looked around and ended up finding and demoing one at Huber Breeze on the East side of town. It sounded awesome! Definitely a whole different animal that the 618s. Their pricing wasn't great so I'm ordering mine elsewhere...but it's worth the trip to hear them. Sadly, they didn't have the PRX612s available (which is the top box we're going with) so we listened to it with a 615. Huber Breeze is on Groesbeck in Clinton Twp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted May 23, 2011 Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hey man. I'm in this area too. GC Southfield said that none of the GCs stock the xlf models. I've looked around and ended up finding and demoing one at Huber Breeze. It sounded awesome! Definitely a whole different animal that the 618s. Their pricing wasn't great so I'm ordering mine elsewhere...but it's worth the trip to hear them. Sadly, they didn't have the PRX612s available (which is the top box we're going with) so we listened to it with a 615. Huber Breeze is on Groesbeck in Clinton Twp. I certainly hope you gave the store that demo'd them for you the chance to get your business. Did you tell them the price you could get them for elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members gspointer Posted May 23, 2011 Members Share Posted May 23, 2011 I certainly hope you gave the store that demo'd them for you the chance to get your business. Did you tell them the price you could get them for elsewhere? It sucks how many people go to the local store for a demo, then order on-line. Soon our only option will be what GC or MF sells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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