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Percussion sounds for duo of guitar and bass?


BluesCam

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I'm just starting to gig again after 20 yr. We just played a job that I booked by email without a demo. I wish they all would be that simple. I am in the process of trying the Salgo footdrum system for percussion.

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I had never heard of these and just checked them out on YouTube they look interesting. I tried to make my drum machine do similar but failed.

 

 

Seriously? Super simple stuff. The beat buddy can do this sort of thing easily, except it will be in time, require far less effort, and will do fills.

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Yes seriously, in my mind there is a difference in someone tapping in rhythm and someone switching on a machine, even if the tapping is connected to a machine.

I have just re read that and am well aware it makes no sense but well that's how my mind works 😀

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Yes seriously, in my mind there is a difference in someone tapping in rhythm and someone switching on a machine, even if the tapping is connected to a machine.

I have just re read that and am well aware it makes no sense but well that's how my mind works 😀

 

That's the way I feel, too. I don't really care about fills. I play blues. I am just trying out the footdrum plus and will let you guys know how it goes.

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The problem with something like the Salgo, or any of the 'manual' [pedal?] beatboards, etc, is that if you need your foot for something else, say the looper, or harmonizer, or airturn...well, there goes your steady beat. It is also one more thing to have to focus on, and I find singing and playing demanding enough. :wave:

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I am in a blues duo and am interested in adding some percussion sounds to fill things out. I have seen the Farmer Foot Drums and some digital stomp boxes and pedals. What are you folks using? Thank you.

 

Have you considered switching to upright bass? It's much more percussive than electric. If I was looking for a partner for me on guitar, I'd choose an upright bass player first if one was available. Electric bass? Meh schmeh. They also look cooler and can keep grooving when the power goes out.

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I agree with you, however to me, a drum machine sounds like, well.. a machine. So....to each his own. What ever works for you is the way to go. I may decide to do without percussion.

 

and that is the real key...there is no one good solution, and in the final stage, I opted to limit my use of all the extra stuff [bB/Harmonizer/looper] and just play the guitar and sing.

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and that is the real key...there is no one good solution, and in the final stage, I opted to limit my use of all the extra stuff [bB/Harmonizer/looper] and just play the guitar and sing.

 

Things often come down to "how much time is this worth?" and I've been coming down on "none" a lot in the past ten years or so. I've tried toe-tap boxes with piano and it confused my left hand. Gone. Beat boxes? Harmonizers? Not even worth the time of considering. I had an amazing old Fender volume/tone pedal with my electric but it sucked attention from my fingers. Gone. I've played a Dobro since I bought it new in 1972. All I want is to make it sound like it sounds to me in real life. Haven't got there yet and it drives me nuts.

 

The Whitely Family played at the waterfront here last night. They insist on micing all the instruments rather than pickups etc etc.

**It sounded Great!***.

Spacious and natural -- like somebody's living room, but backing onto the 1000 islands of the St. Lawrence River. Of course, they were all top-notch players, lifers. And that, I think, is really what it comes down to.

 

Oh, and BluesCam, consider washboard. That was the only percussion they used, and that not often. Very effective. I'll bet you could macgyver a backpack pedal washboard for the bass player.

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I will add to "how much time is worth" with " how heavy/awkward is it to get to the gig" but will counter with, sometimes a bit of effort brings a new wave of enthusiasm to the player and is well worth it. As always it's about balance.

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BluesCam..

Here are a few thoughts from my trials and tribulations over the years...

 

Keeping it simple, or as simple as possible lets more human element of your performance come thru. Whether it is eye contact with the crowd, instead of looking at screens and pedalboards, or "technical malfunctions" with equipment, incorrect beats, kits, volume that blows the hair off of your crowd, or the like. Every addition to your show takes away from another part of your show. Add lots of lights, distracts from the performance... Add lots of pedals, distracts from what you are doing in the moment... and so on. There is always a cost of adding something else with a solo performance.

 

Confidence is important. Ive seen too many musicians hiding in tracks for whatever reason. I also think tracks have their place. A horn player solo gig is a tough gig without tracks.

 

I've used drum machines. When you do, its a duo gig... you and the machine. The machine is the boss on those gigs.

Stand alone machines.. Have to remember what patch numbers are what patterns, tempos, volume of said drums to the rest of the performance, as well as how readily it is accepted.

 

IMHO .. duo gigs with electric guitar and bass sound better with canned drums. You get the band feel.

 

When I do solo acoustic gigs, I am not a fan. On solo shows I simply use a boomerang looper, 1 measure loop of kick and snare sounds via banging on the bridge for a kick sound, and smacking the strings against the frets for a snare sound. In this case it is more about percussion, than it is emulating drum kit (which are two different issues entirely). No fill button (So you can here me play live fills). Turn it on and off when needed. Drop it out in the middle of a tune, bring it back in when you want it. Never have to change patterns, as you erase and tap in the new pattern for the next song.

 

It is not annoying to the audience to tap it for one measure. No different then a drummer counting of a tune. Simple.

As a blues duo, you don't have to worry about drum machines and shuffle beats.

 

Want more human element .. have your beat go for 4 measures and the human aspect of the percussion comes thru in the micro variations in percussion, tempo, and sound element.

 

You are distraction free for the entire performance to entertain and let you best playing shine (instead of becoming what I refer to as the "enchanted musician") whose attention is consumed by laptops, iOS devices, pedalboards, harmonizers, lyric prompters, quality of wifi and bluetooth signals,and such. They never look at the audience.

 

Experiment.. no one answer is the best.. I started using tracks since i was programming TX81zs. Dumped it after 15 years. Went to straight drum machines... Dumped those too. Now I just use a looper and lay down percussion..Instant percussion machine..It's my groove. Sounds a bit different every gig. Music is a journey. Try it all. You will know what works best because it will become effortless.

 

Good Luck.

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Hard to disagree with a lot of what you say Jason, however I use pedal board, harmonizer, looper, iPad, stomp box, airturn pedal, lyric prompter, and hardly ever look away from the audience the whole performance.

 

IMHO, that's the art of being a good entertainer. Doing all that and making it look effortless, while maintaining a connection to the audience. They are all tools. Depends how you use them.

 

Glance at a lyric prompter, or read it line for line the whole song. A bit of high harmony on a chorus, or the Beach Boys backing you up every song. Getting into a song looping rather quickly, or playing a verse, chorus, bridge, and coda, spending 3 minutes to lay tracks for a song that will be 10. A boost, or bit of delay vs 12 pedal presses to get that sound you need. No right or wrongs, just what is right or wrong for you.

 

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IMHO, that's the art of being a good entertainer. Doing all that and making it look effortless, while maintaining a connection to the audience. They are all tools. Depends how you use them.

And that is the crux of the biscuit...entertain. First, foremost, last and not least.

I have walked out on enough 'soloists' who were so buried in tracks that you couldn't tell if they were even playing. The audience was bored, I was disgusted. I don't mind tracks if they are not the 'show', but some people get so immersed in the 'art of the tracks' they forget they are there to entertain the audience.

 

 

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dm? who said I was staying home? I'm having no problem getting work... extra body = less pay can be seen as extra artist more complete composition = happier clientele + better gigs all around but youre the pro, I'm a neophyte, still wet behind the ears.... but hey, when all it is is a dollar I can see your point... kinda... drum kit? I'm glad I don't have to create anything in the constraints of your box... :wave:

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you know what? that s your opinion sir and that and $5 will get you a cup of coffee at starbucks... personal experience in this area has shown that two of the guitarists I work with on djembe pull in less than half without me on the mix... your attitude comes across as far less than professional... one might think that you believe you know everything...I usually steer clear of advice from those that know it all...

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Well, I went ahead and got a Salgo foot drum system. It's pretty cool. I am letting the bass player use it since I find it difficult to sing, play leads and work the pedals. It will take time for him to get used to it. I can tell initially, that his bass playing is suffering for it. But, it does add to the sound.

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If I were to do another duo, I'm currently in a trio with a small electronic drum kit. I would most likely use a small machine like the Roland Octapad SPD-30 or something similar like the Alesis Sample Pad Pro into a looper pedal. Start by playing one or two bars into the looper, then play the loop.

 

I saw a duo doing just that last weekend. There were just a bass player and an acoustic guitar/keyboard player. Which is what I was doing for a couple of years, but we used tracks. One thing that impressed me was how effortless they made it look. I remember they did the Ritchie Valens song La Bamba, they had the stops and starts down pat. The other thing that impressed me was their version of the Zombies 'Time of the Season' for the solo the guy looped the guitar and proceeded to play on his keyboard (Korg SV1-73) a perfect recreation of Rod Argent's solo on that song. It was pretty cool to see two loops independently running while he and the bass player jammed their asses off!

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If I were to do another duo, I'm currently in a trio with a small electronic drum kit. I would most likely use a small machine like the Roland Octapad SPD-30 or something similar like the Alesis Sample Pad Pro into a looper pedal. Start by playing one or two bars into the looper, then play the loop.

 

I saw a duo doing just that last weekend. There were just a bass player and an acoustic guitar/keyboard player. Which is what I was doing for a couple of years, but we used tracks. One thing that impressed me was how effortless they made it look. I remember they did the Ritchie Valens song La Bamba, they had the stops and starts down pat. The other thing that impressed me was their version of the Zombies 'Time of the Season' for the solo the guy looped the guitar and proceeded to play on his keyboard (Korg SV1-73) a perfect recreation of Rod Argent's solo on that song. It was pretty cool to see two loops independently running while he and the bass player jammed their asses off!

 

 

In my old duo, we had a conga drum mic'd into a looper that we did just that with. Worked pretty well, but I definitely prefer the beat buddy! Far less effort!!

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