Workstation or Arranger

[gargusio]

Hi everyone, this is my first post, so please go easy on me.

 

I've been thinking about getting a new keyboard for myself and been reading about different ones for over three weeks now. The problem is, the more I read the more undecided I get. I am looking for something to get into production.

 

I have played with old Yamaha's PSRs over the years, at the moment I have a psr630, as you can see my only experience is with arrangers.

 

I have made couple of songs (or should I call it music - instrumental) on FLStudio or Fruity Loops as it was called back in the day, using just vsts and computer keyboard.

 

I had been thinking of getting a workstation keyboard and learning to use cubase.

 

Working with my budget I narrowed my choices to Yamaha MX, Korg Kross and Roland Juno DS (all cheaper ones, 61keys). Out of these three, Juno seems to be most appealing (guitar insert, sequencer, sound).

 

I like the idea of being able to control saturation, resonance and cut-off in real time, but since I'll be recording and replaying loops, the question is, do I really need it...

 

Recently I came across used Yamaha Tyros 2 arranger in the same price range. Unfortunately I can't find much info about it being used with DAWs and how efficient it is. Its ability to play karaoke on big screen (I planned on buying a karaoke set) and the fact that it is an arranger are a big plus to me but I wouldn't want to limit myself when it comes to production. I am basically trying to find something that will serve me for years to come and the fact that it's a 2005 keyboard puts a big question mark on that.

 

What always bothered me with PSRs is the fact that they are very limited and complicated when it comes to modifying sounds and styles and this is what pulls me towards workstation. But on the other hand Tyros 2 seems to be a mixture of both worlds.

 

I would really appreciate if someone having more experience could help me with my dilemma. Workstation or arranger? Or maybe you could suggest me any other keyboard within that price range ($800US, 1000AUD)?

[kbeaumont]

An arranger creates a backup for the song your playing based on the chord your playing in your left hand. They do this by style, what they are good for is one man band playing and as a source of inspiration for songwriters. The biggest drawback is you are limited to the preset 'styles', this makes it very annoying if your covering a song and the style doesn't match the recording. Also you are mostly limited to chord left hand, melody right hand. Many players I have heard using them sound very robotic. Lastly the better ones can be very expensive. The cheap ones usually don't have they quality of sounds that a workstation has for the same price. But the much more expensive ones do have very good professional sounds. But at a steep price.

 

The positives are they usually have a ton of sounds and the technology is getting much better.

 

Workstations are designed for creating your own sequences and midi control. Many connect directly to your DAW and you can control basic functions from your DAW with the boards controllers. They won't automatically play a backing for you, but rather you create your own tracks. Similar to what your doing in a DAW but in the hardware sequencer. They usually also have a ton of on board sounds. The drawbacks are many are hard to program and most of what you would do with its sequencer are easier to do with your DAW.

 

For learning cubase, the workstation would be a better choice as they usually have better sounds for the price and you don't need the arranger functions. My personal opinion is the Yamaha MX is the better choice because it comes with cubase and has its controllers already mapped to cubase. I also think the keyboard action is far better.

 

Lastly you really don't need either if you just want to learn cubase. A controller with no on-board sounds will work fine and is cheaper. This would allow you to get a full 88 keys for the price. The drawback is no on-board sounds you are tied to the computer and the DAWs included plugins.

 

I use workstations in fact I have two, the Roland FA-08 and the Yamaha MOX8. The Roland stays home and is the centerpiece for my home studio. The Yamaha is for gigging live. I also have an arranger but in a module. Its a Roland B-7m it will plugin to either board via midi cables. I rarely use it.

 

[Chordite]

Absolutely go the workstation route. Arrangers are not really the professional way. I know, you are looking at that learning curve and panicking.

As a rule of thumb I used to divide instruments into two distinct groups anything with a "demo song" was out, that stuff is "grandpa plays at Christmas" domestic. You will not learn anything about composition if you depend on those preset rhythms and styles.

I admit I am an old school gear junkie and work with Korgs (DSS-1 and M1) into Cubase. So I realize that the world has moved on a lot and there will be much cross fertilization that others can better advise on but ground up construction skills are not something you will ever regret long term. Especially when one day someone lets you loose on a Steinway which conspicuously lacks a Bossa Nova button LoL

[Phil O'Keefe]

Absolutely go the workstation route. Arrangers are not really the professional way. I know, you are looking at that learning curve and panicking.

As a rule of thumb I used to divide instruments into two distinct groups anything with a "demo song" was out, that stuff is "grandpa plays at Christmas" domestic. You will not learn anything about composition if you depend on those preset rhythms and styles. I admit I am an old school gear junkie and work with Korgs (DSS-1 and M1) into Cubase.

 

While I generally agree with all of your points, I just wanted to point out that lots of pro gear / workstations have built-in demo songs - including the Korg M1.

 

 

[video=youtube;pwAypkQqcBk]

 

 

As far as the OP, first of all - welcome to HC!

 

I generally agree with what Chordite said above, although it has been a while since I've checked out one of the latest generation Arranger keyboards. Yamaha is supposed to be sending me a new PSR-EW300 for review soon, so I should have a better idea of what the latest ones can do after I check that out, but in general, companies are putting at least some of their attention and investment into the preset rhythms and styles on Arranger keyboards, whereas a typical Workstation probably invests more into the sequencing features and sound generator - In other words, workstations usually sound better than arrangers, on average, but lack the "music background generation / arranging" capabilities - Workstations assume you're going to handle that part yourself, and they give you the tools to do so, but generally they can't do any of it for you.

 

Both can be useful tools, depending on who you are and what you're trying to do.

 

[Chordite]

Thanks Phil, At least the DSS-1 is safe, I think

Anyway just to show that I am a total hypocrite I bought a Technics KN1000 at auction yesterday for next to nothing £35 It had a speaker fault and a dry joint on one of the power transistors so took a couple of hours to get running smoothly. It has a pretty reasonable piano for it's year, 1991 from the molding dates, and included the important floppy drive.

Whilst I found the backings a bit constrictive and sounds limited it is nice to have a sequencer and reasonable piano with speakers as "plug and play" for ideas before they disappear in the time it takes to fire up the main korgs and PC.

If Gargusio wants to pick one up for probably 100 bucks in decent condition it might help him decide which way to go.(it is velocity sensitive which may not be evident in the vid)

This is the kind of bimbling around it excels at.

 

PS to clarify This is not me playing in the video though I would be happy if it was

 

[video=youtube_share;okFAiPXHutw]

[Phil O'Keefe]

Thanks for posting the video - that was fun to watch. You play well.

 

 

[Chordite]

Sorry Phil. That's not me! It was just a demo I found on you tube. I will edit to clarify.

You might want to remove the unearned compliment, but you can leave the upvote LoL