Help with adding compressor to a small rig

[Jerry007]

I've been doing sound lately for lots of acoustic acts as part of an open mic-type thing.

 

Things are sounding pretty good with my simple set-up (MixWiz/PRX512s)

 

I'm using no outboard effects, nothing inserted anywhere, still tinkering with EQ on the mains, though almost flat.

 

I'm thinking some compression might raise the overall sound quality a notch. Not looking to fix a problem, but just trying to achieve a higher level of production.

 

I've got an RNC sitting around (stereo unit, not true 2-channel) - Any thoughts on inserting it on the mains?

[gspointer]

 

I've been doing sound lately for lots of acoustic acts as part of an open mic-type thing. Things are sounding pretty good with my simple set-up (MixWiz/PRX512s) I'm using no outboard effects, nothing inserted anywhere, still tinkering with EQ on the mains, though almost flat. I'm thinking some compression might raise the overall sound quality a notch. Not looking to fix a problem, but just trying to achieve a higher level of production. I've got an RNC sitting around (stereo unit, not true 2-channel) - Any thoughts on inserting it on the mains?

 

 

My thoughts are, skip it. I use comps on individual channels only, and then only if they are causing me grief.

[Craig Vecchione]

Adding something that's designed to fix problems to a system that has no problem does not achieve a higher level of production. It only adds complexity and will probably result in problems and lower sound quality.

 

Compression is used to reduce dynamic range in cases where dynamic range is excessive and can not be controlled by other means (such as a vocalist employing good mic technique) more effectively. It is also used as a guitar or bass guitar effect. If you do not have these problems or needs, then you can save yourself the money and trouble.

 

Less is more, both for your rig in general, and especially with processing and effects. Don't use what you don't need. You'd be very surprised how little is actually needed in pro rigs. More often than not, the "talent" requests stuff, whether or not it's needed or even used.

[Crownman]

Since your doing acoustic acts I try inserting the comp on whichever signal has the most spikes.

 

What I mean:

 

I've had people that sing in a smooth manner using good mic technique and sounded great without needing a comp. HOWEVER, they beat the hell out of the acoustic at times and were kind of inconsistent with their attack on the strings. Using the comp helped me smooth it out a little to take the harsh attacks down a few notches.

 

And vice versa.

 

So I'd keep the unit with you at the gigs but only use it if you need to.

[IsildursBane]

 

Compression is used to reduce dynamic range in cases where dynamic range is excessive and can not be controlled by other means (such as a vocalist employing good mic technique) more effectively. It is also used as a guitar or bass guitar effect. If you do not have these problems or needs, then you can save yourself the money and trouble.

 

 

That's not correct. Once you get beyond the "combat audio" approach of using it to keep people from blowing up your rig, it's used as "an effect" on virtually all sources, not just guitar and bass.

 

Jerry, try it on individual channels, not on the mains. If you put it on the mains, you'll have the guitar triggering the comp for the vocals and vice versa, which could be problematic with less-than-skilled performers.

 

An alternative is to put it on a parallel bus, having a blend of the compressed signal and the dry signal: since you've already got the gear, that might be worth a shot.

 

-Dan.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

That's not correct.

 

 

What isn't correct?

[IsildursBane]

 

What isn't correct?

 

 

That it's only used as an effect on guitar and & bass and that otherwise, it's merely a tool to correct problems.

 

It's more versatile than that.

 

-Dan.

[agedhorse]

 

That it's only used as an effect on guitar and & bass and that otherwise, it's merely a tool to correct problems. It's more versatile than that. -Dan.

 

 

I don't thin or see that Craig indicated otherwise, and in fact mentioned vocals in his example.

[Craig Vecchione]

 

That it's only used as an effect on guitar and & bass and that otherwise, it's merely a tool to correct problems. It's more versatile than that. -Dan.

 

 

I understand where you're going with this, but I didn't write what you're claiming here. There's a method to my madness. I wasn't about to go into a dissertation about every possible use and technique regarding compression for a total beginner. Compression is confusing enough for newbies. So I kept it to the basic and most common uses.

[Chaff67]

I was using compression on my singers before they became more adept at working the mic. Since I have nothing to fix now, I set it for limiting the mains.

[IsildursBane]

Ah, well, if I misunderstood, I apologize. FWIW, I thought I remembered Jerry being something above a total noob.

 

-Dan.

[Craig Vecchione]

There are plenty of guys with years under their belts who are neophytes with compression. I'm often stunned to hear some of the explanations of how it works or what it does from guys you'd think would have this down cold. It's not a knock on anyone to say they're new to a concept or a tool. Just means you have to start at the beginning and not assume knowledge that might not be acquired as yet.

[Jerry007]

"noob" is such a relative term...

 

Like many around here, I have zero pro SR experience, but have a pretty good grasp of the piles of guitar/project studio/PA equipment that I own/use/purchase. Occasionally I ask a dumb question, mostly because I'm hoping someone knows the answer...

 

I appreciate Craigv's cautious answer (and know exactly where he's coming from), and I promise not to break anything or hurt anyone or stay out past eleven

 

In this case, the suggestion to try compressing individual sources (and keeping it off the mains) is closest to what I was asking/seeking. [thanks!]

[Coaster]

i didnt take craigs post as saying it couldnt be used as a source of color. i often use compression as a color source, specifically i like to use the acp-22 set to just a crack over 1:1 and yank off 30db of signal, its a wild cold eery kind of sound that is wicked cool on certain sources, like female vox. it certainly doesnt control any dynamics but gives a real edge to the sound. i will say the amount of times i actually do this per year is counted on one hand, usually i set vox comp around 4:1 and yank 3 to 6db off the signal during peaks, sometimed 12db on the lesser experienced vocalists.

 

i got one guy that i set infinity:1 everytime and he can stay out of reduction for an hour and then peg the GR all the way. crazy sloppy technique but an awesome frontman.

[agedhorse]

How can you possibly remove 30dB of signal with even a 1.5:1 ratio??? That would be ~90dB of dynamic range squeezed into 60dB. I don't think you can possibly do this without at least a 2 or 3:1 ratio and low threshold..

[Coaster]

 

How can you possibly remove 30dB of signal with even a 1.5:1 ratio??? That would be ~90dB of dynamic range squeezed into 60dB. I don't think you can possibly do this without at least a 2 or 3:1 ratio and low threshold..

 

 

shrugs.

 

i do it. it happens. just not very often. its entirely likely the ink is not perfect on my faceplate.

[OneEng]

My 2 cents ...

 

If you have good sound, don't muck with it

 

Ok, now lets get back to the reality of the situation. The OP believes that he can get better sound than he is currently getting with the use of some compression. This is not entirely incorrect.

 

Compression on the vocals can smooth out really hot portions of the vocals, and bring up really light portions. This isn't just a "loud" vs "soft" part of the song, but rather loud frequencies, and soft frequencies within the same time frame of a song. This can have a nice effect and produce very good sounding vocals compared to the non-compressed signal (which is why nearly all recordings do it).

 

The same can be said on the guitar, although I think that with the guitar, it is more of an effect than a tool (IMHO).

 

The down-side of using compression (yes there are down-sides) is that it increases your chance of feedback live, and can squash the dynamics of a song if you go overboard with it leaving you with a lifeless sound. You also have a more complex setup in your mixer (more wires, more settings ..... more things to go wrong).

 

My personal opinion is that if you only have a single channel of compression available to you, I would put it on the vocals (use the insert on the vocal channel), not the entire mix.

 

Good luck!

[Reson8tor]

Agree 100% with OneEng's post above. I usually avoid compression with "acoustic" acts, especially where mics are involved. It reduces the headroom before feedback, and a good acoustic instrument player won't need compression to improve the sound. If a player wants compression as an effect, they should supply it themselves in their own signal chain (probably not gonna happen at an open mic gig, but 'ya never know). You could try it as an effect on vocals, or to control screamers, but there are some singers who know how to work a mic. You might not be doing them any favors by compressing their vocal technique.

 

I know some FOH engineers just like the sound of compression, and will throw it on almost anything. I'm just not one of those people. I like the way things sound through a quality microphone and PA system without any "help" from compression.