Members mrcpro Posted July 5, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 Actually the important dude with the gold in this story is probably the club owner. He owns a heck of a lot of stuff around here. The apartments were recently built in an old abandoned warehouse with help from a federal grant for urban renewal, or historic downtown preservation, or something like that. They are full and are looked upon as a great success story by the city. The owner controls several downtown properties and wants to tap into that same resource. The bar itself used to be the largest brothel for miles around back 100 years or so. It's just the craziest building... we're only using the street level, but upstairs and in the basement there's all these really tiny rooms with no lights or windows. So I guess it's a historical landmark of sorts. He's figured out a way to get it designated as one, and the whole thing is tapped for renovation next year. Anyway... bottom line is that he definitely does not want to make waves and I'm going to have to turn those subs down, even if the claims that people are being shaken out of their beds is beyond rational thought for a couple of compact 21" subs a couple of blocks away to be actually doing that. But I still want a lot or low end energy right in that little dinky area in the video. Maybe corner loading the subs wouldn't be the right thing to do either, because I don't want a lot of lows going out sideways. Ideally I'd like to steer the sound straight out to the railroad tracks and the river. What if I used my four 18"s instead and lined them up against that back wall? Would that focus the energy straight ahead with some side cancellation? I know that this seems like a small problem to most of you guys but I would like to get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 5, 2011 Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 What if I used my four 18"s instead and lined them up against that back wall? Would that focus the energy straight ahead with some side cancellation?Yes. Space them out a bit for best side cancellation. 5-7 feet between each center will cancel out the "kick" the most. You'd want them 1/2 wavelength apart for that. Sound goes 1100 feet per second so at 80Hz a wavelength is 1100 divided by 80 is 13.75 so half of that is 6.9 feet. At 100 Hz 5.5 feet. The fundamental of the kick is usually in there somewhere. Have fun ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted July 5, 2011 Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 If you have 4-18"s, then you can easily get pattern control and steering do a physical or dsp implemented cardiod or Quasimodo cardiod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 5, 2011 Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 If you have 4-18"s, then you can easily get pattern control and steering do a physical or dsp implemented cardiod or Quasimodo cardiod The amount of practical control available is pretty close to zero. The array is way too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dennis a Posted July 5, 2011 Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 The OP's original problem was no sub coverage on the dance floor....a second problem was volume complaints from nearby apartments. The explanations of the layout have been too vague to recreate the problem and finally, everyone is offering solutions to a problem that hasn't been clearly defined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted July 5, 2011 Members Share Posted July 5, 2011 one time a couple years ago i was running my little teeny PA at an outside show - 2 18"s under small tops. an old folks high rise approx 500 yards or more away called the police about the excessive bass the police showed up, looked at my rig, my city issued clothing, and asked in a lowered voice at foh when i would be done. i said 9pm and he left. we've done this event again and again and the police come everytime but they no longer talk to us, they just show up, look around, and leave. i'm sure they are still getting calls, but the calls are ridiculous. and "we" are a part of the local gov't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Here's an update from last weekend. I went with the 21"s again - they were already there - and put them against the back wall first. The sound was horrible. The low end was an indistinct wash of mud, and there was even less of it in the dance area than before - while being even more pronounced everywhere else. Moving them further out from the wall another 3 feet or so (from the place I had them the week before) gave me the best sound for that dance area. I turned the subs down and everything went well. I didn't need a decibel meter. It was blatantly obvious. The week before we were written up in the police reports. The owner circled the incident in the paper and placed it on top of my DJ station to hammer the message home before I started. I was going to take some pictures but the place was so packed out that I couldn't make it up to the deck. I may try this weekend if anyone is interested in the layout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 11, 2011 Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 with the 21"s again - they were already there - and put them against the back wall first. The sound was horrible. The low end was an indistinct wash of mud, and there was even less of it in the dance area than before - while being even more pronounced everywhere else. .. Moving them further out from the wall another 3 feet or so (from the place I had them the week before) gave me the best sound for that dance area. It's hard to really understand what is happening without making good measurements (same for Sean's thread today). You are making an assumption that more bass will sound better. Maybe yes, maybe no. You have to allow for the possibility that increased low frequencies actually make more of a "wash of mud" and that pulling them out from the wall and rolling off the lows simply sounded better and is what you prefer even though intuitively you think the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 11, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yeah I know that I would had to have EQ'ed them against the wall or bumped the highpass up to 40 (right now I'm just running them flat between 31.5 and 70 on the Driverack) but it wasn't worth the effort because the levels dropped off in that dance area when I moved them back and increased when I moved them forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Just Mike Posted July 12, 2011 Members Share Posted July 12, 2011 Remember a 50 hz sine wave is about 22 feet peak to peak. And if you're playing inside of a square that's anywhere near a multiple of that, the actual space you're in can act like a giant speaker box and resonate at some of those frequencies. LF in spaces like that peaks and lobes all over the place. About 12-13 years ago, I had the pleasure of being on the parkwide audio team for Universal's Islands of Adventure theme Park, and the Speaker mfr. of choice won the job by showing the client their "Auditioner" plots. You could see all of the audio hotspots in the park due to buildings and it was surprising the amount of LF energy there was at points quite a distance from any LF transducers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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