Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 How do Class D amplifiers compare to Class A amplifiers for powering Sub woofers? I always thought you needed big, robust Class A amplifiers for subs.The thread about the Peavey IPR1600 got me thinking about this. Has anybody had any problems using a CLass D amplifier to drive subs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 You'd not want to haul around a class "a" sub amp for sure - maybe 200-300 lbs and its own distro to power it ? They dissipate more power at idle than they ever deliver to the load. Perhaps you meant a class AB or more likely a switch rail class AB ? In any case class "D" amps like the Crown iTech kick serious arse in sub duty . Screw hauling around "heavy iron" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 My IPR-3000 runs my Yorkville LS1004's awesome. No complaints here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 You'd not want to haul around a class "a" sub amp for sure - maybe 200-300 lbs and its own distro to power it ? They dissipate more power at idle than they ever deliver to the load. Perhaps you meant a class AB or more likely a switch rail class AB ? In any case class "D" amps like the Crown iTech kick serious arse in sub duty . Screw hauling around "heavy iron" . I was under the impression that most old school Amps were class A amps.....and that switching amps were not good for subs. We have two 1000 watt amps that weight like 45-50 each. I'm considering an IPR6000 for the subs, and IPR1600's for mains and monitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members stangconv Posted July 15, 2011 Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 IPR-6000's haven't been released yet with varying opinions on when they will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 15, 2011 IPR-6000's haven't been released yet with varying opinions on when they will be. I saw them listed at Sweetwater for $650. They are supposedly going to be arriving the 24th of July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I've wondered this many times as well. A good friend of mine who has an IPR3000 says that it works well enough but that it doesn't sound as good as his Macrotech (I think Crowns last a a/b amplifier). I've always thought that for those huge long bass notes, some storage was required (read BIG caps). Looking at the damping factor of a macrotech vs an IPR there really isn't any comparison. I have heard it said that damping factor isn't really a big deal but I believe I can hear the difference (if not in quantity of bass then in quality of bass). That said, The differerence I hear is small and the PITA factor of hauling around the big storage batteries (read BIG caps) and the inefficient delivery system is big. I think I'l take the class d amp and save my back. Just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I was under the impression that most old school Amps were class A amps.....and that switching amps were not good for subs. Commonly held thought but not necessarily true. Here's the real deal, a well executed product will probably outperform a poorly executed one. The class of the amp really has very little to do with it if you are truly comparing apples to apples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I was under the impression that most old school Amps were class A amps.....and that switching amps were not good for subs. Could you possibly be confusing the class of the amplification portion of an amplifier (class A) with an amplifier's type of power supply (SMPS)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Consume Posted July 16, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 Could you possibly be confusing the class of the amplification portion of an amplifier (class A) with an amplifier's type of power supply (SMPS)? That very well may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 An addition to my previous post. The same fellow that owns the IPR3000 & Macrotech amps owns a Powersoft amp as well. The damping factor is on par with the macrotech and it KILLS as a sub amp (So I guess digital switching amps can compete at the very top end). This just goes along with what Mark was saying about quality built equipment. FWIW the Powersoft amp (I'm sorry I don't remember the model number) is lots of watts and really expensive. Yup, you get what you pay for. This is also not to downgrade the Peavey IPR series. Bang for the buck, they seem to be exceptional (and far from being a junk (I've always liked Peavey products)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I am of the persuasion that damping factor in an amplifier has little to no effect comparitive the cabling used and the resistance of the drivers use. http://www.bennettprescott.com/downloads/dampingfactor.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 ...and you would be correct in that thought. Good amps always win regardless of power supply. Powersoft amps are very high end and very expensive, but they deliver the goods. Single rack space and lots of watts (like 10K watts.) Even their cheap, small amps cost $$$. Given enough rails, switching amps can compete well with old iron. I have XTIs and ITechs. The ITechs do well on subs because they have enough rail power stored to supply demand even at high power, with high current draw. The XTIs compare less favorably because they don't have enough rail power stored for extreme demands (like kick drum.) If they are run within reason, XTIs are OK, but when pushed, the ITechs shine and the XTIs whine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 There are NO class A amps in pro audio. There are class AB, G & H but not A. Power supply topologies are different than amplifier topologies. Might be a good time to google what this stuff means... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members W. M. Hellinger Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 There are NO class A amps in pro audio. There are class AB, G & H but not A.Power supply topologies are different than amplifier topologies.Might be a good time to google what this stuff means... Good primer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier BTW: I believe class A amplifiers are generally the realm of audiophiles (where weight, efficency, ROI, etc... is a nonplayer in their business model, but personal satisfaction and possibly bragging rights might heavily influence equipment acquisition decisions)... or museum curiosities (from... like Edison and Marconi Company era). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I thought that was answered in the second post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 16, 2011 Members Share Posted July 16, 2011 I have a Denon receiver that purports to have class "a" outputs that are passively cooled via a heat pipe. Sounds pretty good though the KEF coaxials I have . Oh, and I had the big subs out today powered by the IPR3000 - no problem keeping a wide swath clear in front of them as they get painfully loud, 137db peak calculated @ 1m only powered at rms . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted July 17, 2011 Members Share Posted July 17, 2011 I have a Denon receiver that purports to have class "a" outputs that are passively cooled via a heat pipe. Sounds pretty good though the KEF coaxials I have . Oh, and I had the big subs out today powered by the IPR3000 - no problem keeping a wide swath clear in front of them as they get painfully loud, 137db peak calculated @ 1m only powered at rms . I think what Andy meant was there are no class A amps sold in the Pro audio SR world. The Denon probably sounds great but I'd bet it's more of a lower wattage studio amplifier. I believe Haffler made some class A amps (mostly used for studio as well). I love the sound of a great class A amplifier but they are pricey, inefficient, persnicity and IMHO only a miniscule bit better than a good push pull design (I doubt my hearing is even good enough to tell the difference any more). Love the KEF Coaxials (any amp would sound great through those - Good choice :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 17, 2011 Members Share Posted July 17, 2011 I think what Andy meant was there are no class A amps sold in the Pro audio SR world. Correct. The practical limit is about 50 watts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dogoth Posted July 17, 2011 Members Share Posted July 17, 2011 Good primer here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_amplifier Hey thanks for the link. I had A, B, and C topologies understood but this gave me new insight on how AB works (I sort of had a clue about class D but this clairified it better for me). Strangly enough, I knew about G & H as well (used to own a couple of JBL/Urei amps that were class G - what a bucket of worms inside - sounded great - totaly unreliable). push, push, push - pull, pull, pull (the poor sine wave didn't know whether it was comming or going). See what reading does for you :-) Thanks again Just another tastless joke: Where do you find the most sign waves? At a deaf peoples convention (seriously would like to learn the language). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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