Members mrcpro Posted July 25, 2011 Members Share Posted July 25, 2011 Yeah I know that neodymium has gone up something like 1400% over the last year or so, but still I was surprised to see that the B&C 21" driver that I paid $535 for just last winter was recently raised to $892. I've been eying a B&C 12" neo driver that was $179 last week. Today it's $233 everywhere except Alpha. I guess if I want a couple of these I'd better order them now from those guys. This may be our future, with the recent price raises by JBL being just the start. If you currently are on the fence about purchasing cabs with neo drivers in them, you might want to get them soon if you want them at their current prices. Just a heads up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted July 25, 2011 Members Share Posted July 25, 2011 Everyone has or is in the process. If you want Neo it may already be too late. I bought a couple of Eminence woofers that went from $139 to $200 last month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted July 25, 2011 Members Share Posted July 25, 2011 There are many manufacturers that are considering dropping neo all together. It is going to be a bumpy ride for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 25, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 25, 2011 I went ahead and pulled the trigger on those 12s - B&C 12NDL76 (3" vc, 400 watts AES, 8.6 lbs). I've already got a couple of B&C DE500 compression drivers sitting around doing nothing. Guess I'll give them company in a couple of lightweight passives biamped and steered with a Driverack. I know - I said that I wasn't going to ever build again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Welcome to the new real world. I have about 100 neo drivers in my PA inventory and I would hate to go out and buy new now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 This morning that 12" neo driver is $229 at Alpha - $50 more. Got 'er in just in time by sheer luck. They must not have updated their prices over the weekend like the other sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gaffle Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Damn... I knew I should have gotten that last Danley TH-118. Now the price will reaLLy be stratospheric! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Damn... I knew I should have gotten that last Danley TH-118. Now the price will reaLLy be stratospheric!Don't think those are neo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 26, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 Pretty sure those Danleys are loaded with the B&C 18SW115 - a neo driver that's now up to almost $600. But you know - if you're already paying that much for a cab (aren't those close to three grand?) another couple of hundred dollars extra isn't that much of an increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted July 26, 2011 Members Share Posted July 26, 2011 They're so f'in heavy and their website doesn't mention them bein' neo that I thought they weren't. I know the drivers in my TH-Mini's aren't. I think the ones in the TH-412 are but it makes sense there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Even though that driver is neo it still weighs over 26lbs. It's one heck of an 18" - 4.5" vc, 1700w nominal 3400w continuous, +/- 14mm Xmax... I know I read somewhere that that's the driver in the TH-118. May try to track it down tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted July 27, 2011 Author Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 OK here's one reference to it: http://forums.prosoundweb.com/index.php?topic=2828.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted July 27, 2011 Members Share Posted July 27, 2011 Guessing that means all the better powered boxes, most of which use Neo, will either have a dramatic price increase or implement the "specifications subject to change" clause in the spec sheets and swap out the neos to maintain the price point. Distribution charges will increase for the manufacturer as shipping will be higher, but not as much as the neo would cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Guessing that means all the better powered boxes, most of which use Neo, will either have a dramatic price increase or implement the "specifications subject to change" clause in the spec sheets and swap out the neos to maintain the price point. Distribution charges will increase for the manufacturer as shipping will be higher, but not as much as the neo would cost. Yes, the changes are beginning to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mcfontio Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 I do work for a permanent magnet alternator company that uses Neo (up to grade 55 ) and during some of the sourcing endeavors, they came across a Canadian mine that shut down over a decade ago when they couldn't compete with the Chinese Neo. Now that China has total control over the global supply of Neo, they're talking about opening it up again. Who knows how long that would take or if it's even going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 That's like a "gold" mine!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 I do work for a permanent magnet alternator company that uses Neo (up to grade 55 ) and during some of the sourcing endeavors, they came across a Canadian mine that shut down over a decade ago when they couldn't compete with the Chinese Neo. Now that China has total control over the global supply of Neo, they're talking about opening it up again. Who knows how long that would take or if it's even going to happen. Pro Audio Review had an article about this recently. IIRC, there's also a mine in California that may re-open. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 Huge rare earth deposits found in Pacific Looks like this will be a temporary shortage. Scientists recently found a massive deposit off the coast of Japan that's estimated to be upwards of 1000x the size of all known global reserves combined. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 I did some reading. It's not so much that it's unavailable, but that China controls over 90% of the output.... big surprise. Well, they have an artificial cap on how much they'll produce. Along with increased demand, they also recently included several new product types for the cap but didn't increase the quota. HERE's a short explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 A bit more to the story. California has a large Neo reserve that is ramping up quickly. I read some information from Molycorp, the company that mines the California mine and they are increasing output 10X by the end of 2012, from 4,000 metric tons to 40,000 metric tons annually. To put that in perspective, the world demand is currently 120,000 metric tons annually, but is expected to double by 2015. So it does look like the short squeeze could be short lived, but it depends on how quickly production can ramp up. The increase cost of neo will probably slow the growth numbers to lower than expected, but from what I've read, even at much higher prices, most neo applications won't raise the cost of the finished product much. My guess is that the biggest user of neo as a % of cost of final product, are speaker drivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 So don't necessarly assume that that will drive down the costs. Molycorp can now make a profit because of the higher prices for neo because their costs to mine it are much higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members mrcpro Posted August 8, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 Here's an update to my situation that's a little more immediate: Alpha Electronics voided my order! I didn't think you could do that after it was placed and approved. One day after placing the order online I received an e-mail saying that the order was canceled, my Mastercard was credited, and that I was welcome to place the order again! Of course if I were to do that the neo 12's would be $100 more. Well OK that's the last time I do business with Alpha Electronics. Or try to - to be more specific about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members IsildursBane Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 AFAIK, they can do whatever they want if they refund your money. I'm going to guess that what happened was that they were a bit slow on updating their web site and they should have been selling them for the same price as everyone else. I don't know what their dealer agreement says, but it's quite possible they're not allowed to sell below MAP. At the very least, they're not allowed to advertise below MAP. They could have violated their dealer agreement by selling it to you at that price. Given that there was a price increase of $50 and what I know of typical markup percentages, it may also be the case that their old advertised price was lower than their current cost and they'd be losing money on this sale, particularly if they didn't have it in stock and had to order it for you. I'm just speculating about what went on at Alpha, but these are issues I've run into. Depending on what the product is and what the difference is, I may or may not choose to honor the old price. I try to take care of my customers, but I can't very well drop my pants and take a loss on something and neither, I imagine, can they. At the very least, you did deserve more of an explanation than what you got. -Dan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Gaffle Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 A bit more to the story. California has a large Neo reserve that is ramping up quickly. I read some information from Molycorp, the company that mines the California mine and they are increasing output 10X by the end of 2012, from 4,000 metric tons to 40,000 metric tons annually. To put that in perspective, the world demand is currently 120,000 metric tons annually, but is expected to double by 2015.So it does look like the short squeeze could be short lived, but it depends on how quickly production can ramp up. The increase cost of neo will probably slow the growth numbers to lower than expected, but from what I've read, even at much higher prices, most neo applications won't raise the cost of the finished product much. My guess is that the biggest user of neo as a % of cost of final product, are speaker drivers. I'd rather have a Neo driver made out of Cali over a Chinese made one... even if it's more $. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 Here's an update to my situation that's a little more immediate: Alpha Electronics voided my order! I didn't think you could do that after it was placed and approved... I believe that is covered by state laws in the state of the seller as well as that of the consumer (some states are very agressive in consumer protection laws). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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