Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I worked this out with no prior knowledge of setting up a mixer. I'm sure you can tell. I'm looking for opinions on setting up a live mix--using groups. I realize the vocals and the instruments don't need to be gated. I was too lazy to edit the file and take it out. Also, The bass is compressed at the bass rig, so I didn't route it through another compressor. The vocals are also routed through an effects send to a lexicon processor. The board is a Yamaha 24/14 Opinions? Advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Does the band suck that bad at dynamics that you need all that compression ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Does the band suck that bad at dynamics that you need all that compression ? That was helpful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 It's kind of hard to tell from the pic. You'll be inserting the gates and comps right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 It's kind of hard to tell from the pic. You'll be inserting the gates and comps right?The I/O are inserts. The others are sent using GROUP I/O and an aux send. I should add that I'm doing this for my own band and will be trying to set and forget. EDIT: I changed a few things in the image, but the routing is still the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Oops, thought you had 9 compressors goin' there. I'd not combine the keys and guitar as when the keys get loud the guitar will "go away" - keyboardists are notorious for their patches not being balanced. I'd not compress the guitar. I'd only have a limiter on the vocals to catch any screams etc. Same with the kick and just gates on the toms and snare (if needed). What are you using comp2gate R for? If free I'd split the toms up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members modulusman Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 That was helpful... Your going to love us over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Your going to love us over here. Hi, buddy! So good to see you! Thanks for posting! See you later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I just assumed I could use the same settings for both tom 1 and tom 2, so I ran them through the same side.Same settings, sure - but you'd want them separately gated if possible so that you don't get the after-ring of the first tom hit when the drummer hits the second one. But if there are two rack toms and a floor tom you haven't drawn in yet I'd gate the floor tom separately and combine the two rack toms if you're out of channels or gates - you can even use a "Y" cord to combine the two mics if you need to save a channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Same settings, sure - but you'd want them separately gated if possible so that you don't get the after-ring of the first tom hit when the drummer hits the second one. But if there are two rack toms and a floor tom you haven't drawn in yet I'd gate the floor tom separately and combine the two rack toms if you're out of channels or gates - you can even use a "Y" cord to combine the two mics if you need to save a channel.It's one rack tom and one floor tom. I'll split them up. I have a couple more I/O cables. Thanks! I really appreciate the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 BTW the high-hat and overhead mics usually pick up plenty of snare so you may not need to have the snare mic on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 BTW the high-hat and overhead mics usually pick up plenty of snare so you may not need to have the snare mic on.Should I mic the bottom of the snare, instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Tomm Williams Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Should I mic the bottom of the snare, instead? Depends on what you're trying to achieve. If the OH's are doing the job, you're good to go. I personally have always used a 57 on the snare top and got what I was after. Many ways to skin a cat. Even in situations where I used what I felt was the bare minimum I could get by with, I have two OH's, one kick, one snare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Does the band suck that bad at dynamics that you need all that compression ? +1, that was my first impression as well. Not meaning to be a smart ass as much as wondering what it is you are trying to accomplish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 +1, that was my first impression as well. Not meaning to be a smart ass as much as wondering what it is you are trying to accomplish. I don't understand. There are only three compressors being used. I've seen local 5 piece bands with one or two ACP88s going. What's the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Crownman Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Personally. I'd gate the kick & toms. Don't worry about the snare. Also, to start out leave the FX off the snare. Is your board the model with FX built in? If I was setting this up this is how I would do it. I'm assuming you have the units that can be set to gate or comp? Kick - G1LSnare - XHat - XT1 - G1RT2 - G2LOH - X If your mixing the vox through a subgroupV1 - C2RV2 - C2Rv3 - C2R GTR - XKZ - C3LBASS- C3R The KZ can get crazy sometimes. And if bass can hurt stuff if the bass player gets a little too crazy. Usually guitar volume discrepencies aren't quite as hard on gear as the KZ & BASS. However. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Is your board the model with FX built in? Yes, It's a Yamaha 24/14fx, but I also have a older Lexicon unit in the rack. I'm not sure which effects I like better. Regarding any effect on the snare, I was only thinking of adding a little reverb. Not a good idea? Also, the bass rig has a Rane DC24 in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schismpunk Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I worked this out with no prior knowledge of setting up a mixer. I'm sure you can tell. I'm looking for opinions on setting up a live mix--using groups. Did you watch Dave Rat's video on groups? It's killer, and with the start you have, you'll definitely benefit. http://www.youtube.com/user/www73171#p/u/11/MMMmR1u0CFk Hell, watch them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members lifeloverwg Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't understand. There are only three compressors being used. I've seen local 5 piece bands with one or two ACP88s going. What's the big deal? Sorry, I first read it as 8 channels. But even with six channels of comp being used, my comment is based on my experience of hearing local bands that use more compression/limiting/gating than may be needed or that they know how to use well. Just because others do it or you think you should doesn't mean it's the best choice. I think bands would always be better off with more practice learning the skill to play as a band or a tight unit with built in dynamics rather than try to fix many things after the fact. I still stand by my question of what are you trying to fix? That's the first question you need to answer for yourself and us. I use 4 channels of compression for our four piece band, three on vocals to control the peaks so I can keep the vocals on top without too large of a level swing. The fourth, gets switched around from snare to bass to kick or acoustic depending on venue and my mood. Mostly it lives on bass or snare. I've never felt the need for gates as our stage level is pretty manageable, but that's just me. Personally, if I had your six channels, I would want each vocal on it's own channel as I'm not a fan of group style compression more than I would want toms compressed. But once again, that depends on what you are trying to fix or accomplish. It seems odd that toms would ever be too loud, although you could want to flatten them. Snare too loud? Is the kick uneven? Our drummer likes to use her kick at varying levels for dynamic effect so I don't squash it and raise it like others do. I'd rather fix it on the channel level rather than the group level if possible. First figure out the goal, then the flow will follow. Good luck, Winston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 IMO, I'd rather have 4 groups than 2, and since I mix mono, I'd ditch the ST, 1+2, and 3+4 in favor of 1,2,3,4. But that is just me... To echo what other folks have said: I typically don't compress a whole lot, but I much prefer to have individual comps for the vocals unless I am doing something like a hiphop act. Also, I think that you're approaching the problem backwards. Instead of looking at options and then heading out to mix, you should listen to your mix and decide what problems need to be solved, and try out various solutions. It looks like you have a good set of things to try if you don't like something in your mix, but if you've never set up a mix before then I'd start simple and add elements. The Dave Rat videos is cool, but he's mixing for places where the stage volume is completely a non-issue (which is not true for 99% of the users here), and furthermore, he is at the top of his game... what he suggests in that video is cool and interesting but far too complex for most of the users here. 8+ channels of compression is a lot of processing for most bands, IME. I'm not sure how much experience you have, so maybe I misread your post, but I wouldn't even subgroup stuff if I just starting out-- much less have a bunch of processing inserted. There is too much to keep track of if you're not used to thinking that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Compression should be used on individual channels that need it. A little goes a long way. Most of the time, only noobs use too much compression or compression on the entire mix. It is a tool to solve a problem. If you don't have a problem don't use the tool. Why use extraneous gear that actually hurts the overall sound. I am not saying compression is not needed, I am just suggesting that you revisit your reasons for using it. It complicates your mix and adds little overall to sound quality when used incorrectly. Having all three vocals on one channel of compression seems a little weird to me. That alone should cause some sound issues when more then one person is singing at the same time. My first thought is you are WAY over compressing because you think you need to. Take a step back and really decide if that is the way you want to proceed. I doubt if anyone else here would do it quite the way you are if we had identical gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 I don't understand. There are only three compressors being used. I've seen local 5 piece bands with one or two ACP88s going. What's the big deal? I use a Klark Teknik Square One Dynamics but I don't always use all channels. Compression is a tool used to solve a problem. Don't try to fix a problem you don't have. If I had your gear I would consider something like this: Comp 1 L - Kick Comp 1 R - Tom (probably floor tom not rax) Comp 2 L - Vox 1 Comp 2 R - Vox 2 Comp 3 L - Vox 3 Comp 3 R - Keys I would have no problem removing a comp if I did not feel it was needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 IMO, I'd rather have 4 groups than 2, and since I mix mono, I'd ditch the ST, 1+2, and 3+4 in favor of 1,2,3,4. But that is just me... I didn't know 1+2 and 3+4 can be separated. Do I do this with the pan control? I have the stereo outs on the board sent to left and right on the amp. I'm not sure how to use the mono out. Would I run the board's mono out to one side and use the amp's Link/Out 1/4" to jump over to the other side of the amp? I typically don't compress a whole lot, but I much prefer to have individual comps for the vocals unless I am doing something like a hiphop act. I compressed them as a group with the idea it will keep the lead vocalist up in the mix and even out the harmonies--provided the backing vocalists aren't eating the mics. Am I wrong? I'm not sure how much experience you have, so maybe I misread your post, but I wouldn't even subgroup stuff if I just starting out-- much less have a bunch of processing inserted. There is too much to keep track of if you're not used to thinking that way.I have NO experience other than using some compression on my bass rig (it sounds very natural; not squashed). What I've set up is the result of reading a lot of internet articles. I just want to try and keep the drums and vocals evened out a bit. I don't want things squashed completely. Thanks for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members scarecrowbob Posted August 2, 2011 Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 If I were you (or rather, when I was) I would just run everything to the stereo buss and try out the comp on the lead vocal channel for a show or three and see how that goes before adding complexity to what you're doing. But yah, you pan things on that board to use separate busses. Is this your system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Craig_S Posted August 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted August 2, 2011 Is this your system?It is. I've only owned it for a couple weeks. We've rehearsed through it once. That's it. How do I run the amp mono without bridging it? EDIT: I found a setting on the amp (input Y). I told you I'm new to this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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