Members bnelly428 Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 Ok hey all, Abzurd is probably the only person I know of that would use a similar setup (SL 16.4.2) Anywho, I am looking into pricing and logistics regarding 5 sets of IEM for my entire band. I would need 4 separate mixes, although we could probably get by with 3, (one for me, one for other guitar, then one that bass drums and lead vox could share I would suspect.) I have 6 auxes on the SL. What brands models would I need to be able to achieve the above? or is it possible? Thanks, all! PS I am aware that we will probably need custom molds, unless there are some IEMs that have pretty good seal on the ear. I know the debate of having a lav mic to create space and all that, but maybe some buds that have pretty good seal (not complete) could avoid that. Not sure :shrug: PPS Vinny, I know I know, I should have learnt my lesson, but we are considering going all in ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 PM Sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 PPS Vinny, I know I know, I should have learnt my lesson, but we are considering going all in ears. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Zeromus-X Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 We used Galaxy AS-1000 systems with various Ultimate Ears and Shure offerings. Our guitarist/singer used a Shure model equivalent to their E3c, which had less bass and more pronounced mids and highs; bassist used Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 EB, which amplify the bass frequencies; I (drummer) used Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi 10, which sounded very even across the spectrum. I recommend going with Comply foam tips, which UE gives you a sample of when you purchase them; using the Comply foam tips, I never had a problem with them falling out, and they had excellent isolation. The AS-1000 is mono or stereo and wired or wireless, which was my big reason for going with it. If we had a show where wireless interference was a problem, we could limp by with a wired connection. Since your StudioLive has six auxes, that means you could either use five mono mixes or three stereo mixes. Stereo in-ear mix makes a huge difference. It also means you can set up two audience "ambient" mics and be able to tell where your audience requests are coming from, for example. I know Galaxy has a few newer offerings out, but we never had a single problem with our AS-1000 systems. As far as budgeting -- looks like the AS-1506, a much better version, is $612 per system at Guitar Center right now. Budget $200 for each set of earbuds; some people will get by with less, some people will want better, so that's a decent round number. Keep an eye out for sales; I picked up my Triple.Fi 10 earbuds for $99 from Logitech on clearance. Either way, that means with five players and three systems in stereo you're at $2836; with five systems in mono you're at $4060. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDoctorMo Posted August 3, 2011 Members Share Posted August 3, 2011 I have a SL1642 and an AT M3 transmitter with two IEM receivers. My wife and I share the AT M3 system with our own IEM mixes. The drummer uses a mixer with headphones. We got the AT M3 and the two receivers for right at $1000. We have a new bassist and are trying to get him to convert to IEMs, but it's making out to be a bit of a struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carlstretch Posted August 5, 2011 Members Share Posted August 5, 2011 When we converted to all IEM, we just took the plunge. My drummer and I owned the PA so we just told the others that we were changing and they needed to get some ear buds. We bought 2 Shure PSM 400 systems and the extra receivers. My drummer and bass player got the DR Beats and put a custom mold on them. My wife and I got Ultimate Ears custom ear molds. We spent $20 each for the molds and $400 each for the UE custom molds. All I can say is it's spoiled me so much. The other guys got some cheapo Best Buy Skull candy ear buds and all they did was complain about how bad it sounded. I couldn't believe how good it sounded. My buddies with the DR Beats ears like them but they are going to get the Ultimate Ears molds as well. I'm telling you,.... Drop the extra $$ and do it right. Your ears deserve it and you should enjoy your playing experience. So,.. 2 PSM 400 units, 4 extra transmitters, custom ear molds, rack case to hold it. And don't forget a crapload of 9v batteries. We now have a 4 piece (the other guys left because they could not get used to the cheap ear buds) and we can get 4 separate mixes. We only use 2 right now but we have the ability to go to 4 if we want. So we could get away with 1 PSM 400 unit. I think it was $600. Molds, $400 each. You could get started for $1000-$1500,.. depending on how many receivers you need. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TuMadre Posted August 6, 2011 Members Share Posted August 6, 2011 Galaxy has a few newer offerings out, but we never had a single problem with our AS-1000 systems.As far as budgeting -- looks like the AS-1506, a much better version, is $612 per system at Guitar Center right now. Budget $200 for each set of earbuds; some people will get by with less, some people will want better, so that's a decent round number. Keep an eye out for sales; I picked up my Triple.Fi 10 earbuds for $99 from Logitech on clearance. Either way, that means with five players and three systems in stereo you're at $2836; with five systems in mono you're at $4060. We tried out every version of the Galaxy units when we first settled on our wireless systems (except for your AS-1000, which was out of production by that time). The AS-1506, while priced substantially higher than the other systems, didn't sound any better during our trial. We all purchased our own systems individually, so the rack has a mixture of 2 AS-900's and 2 AS-1100's. Soundwise, they are very similar to each other, with some very minor differences. I personally use the Galaxy AS-1100 system with a pair of custom dual driver AlienEars IEM's, and find this solution to be more than satisfactory. 5 of the AS-1100 systems would be around $2K. You can get custom single-driver IEMS from AlienEars for $160 a pop - the bass player and drummer will need dual drivers at a minimum, and the base model for these is $300 each. My calculator says the total for all of this will set you back $3,080 - not too bad at all for 5 frequency agile systems and 5 sets of custom IEM's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members fdew Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 You don't say if you need or want to go wireless IEMs but if all or some of the band can use wired you could just pick up a multi ch headphone amp and you are all set. http://www.rane.com/hc6s.html Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 You can get custom IEM's with ambient tubes. The problem is you're generally limited to how good the IEM's can be because the tubes take up room that there would otherwise be a driver in. For instance, in the Alien Ears, you can get a dual ambient, but not a triple driver ambient. Maybe other companies do this too, but the Alien Ears have 4 plugs so you can adjust the amount of ambience and go from full isolation to a lot of ambience. I wish I could have tried them without committing, but that's how it goes with custom IEM's. FWIW - I'm not sure I'd recommend the AT M2's I have. While the price is right and the sound OK, there is a serious design flaw. The antenna is top mounted and the connection to the unit very long. This means there's like a 1/2" of inflexible connection that's just begging to break. After just a few months my antenna did just that. AT replaced it quickly, but I'm confident in a few months it's going to happen again. The only way to slow it down is to position the pack almost at your back on your waist. Not terribly convenient for adjusting volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members schismpunk Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 You don't say if you need or want to go wireless IEMs but if all or some of the band can use wired you could just pick up a multi ch headphone amp and you are all set. http://www.rane.com/hc6s.html Most headphone amps do NOT have limiters like the IEM units have. You can seriously damage your hearing with a dropped microphone this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TimmyP Posted August 8, 2011 Members Share Posted August 8, 2011 Audio Technica M2, $800 List, sells for $410.00 shipped. Stereo or "More Me" configurations. Has input for a pocket click track, or a cheap lapel mic for ambient (stage & crowd) noise. Ear protection limiter. Comes with earbuds - quality unknown. It appears that there is no rack mount available for a single unit - only pairs. It could be mounted to a rack mount shelf, which would cost about $20-$25 shipped. Don't know if the antennas can be removed (so multiple units can be used with a combiner and antenna). A much better choice than the PSM200. Audio Technica M3, $1100 list, sells for $557.00 shipped. Stereo or "More Me" configurations. Has input for a pocket click track, or a cheap lapel mic for ambient (stage & crowd) noise. Ear protection limiter - adjustable. Automatic scanning to find a clear frequency. More frequencies (more units can be used together). Better display. Detachable antennas (multiple units can be fed by an antenna splitter). Better display and controls. Comes with earbuds - quality unknown. It could be mounted to a rack mount shelf, which would cost about $20-$25 shipped. Definitely worth the extra $147 over the M2. Don't know if the antennas can be removed (so multiple units can be used with a combiner and antenna). Ambient mic for either of the above is $61.00 (I'd hold off on that). Sennheiser EW300G3 IEM. $1500 list, sells for $$825 shipped including rack mount kit. Stereo or "More Me" configuration. Ear protection limiter. Comes with earbuds that suck (keep them as emergency spares. The antennas can be removed. Pros say that the Sennheisers are better than the M3, but will the differences matter to anyone other than a big rental house? Hard to say. For those who don't need to be wireless, there's this: http://www.rockonaudio.com/package.php, and this: http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Shure-P4HW-Hardwired-Bodypack-for-PSM-400-Systems?sku=243606 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members therocker39 Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 My band uses the sennheisers and they sound great I personally like westone ear buds with the comply tips they go about $300 but sound great and are very comfortable but what ever earbuds you get make sure the cable is replaceable the cables tend to break and it costs $50 to replace the cable as opposed to buying a whole new set of buds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members abzurd Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 I use the AT M2 and after several months with it I'm only luke warm on it. The antenna placement is atrocious. I've already broken one and AT replaced it. I WILL break another, it's just a matter of time. The sound is only so-so. The ambient microphone, while a good idea, is another thing to hang off the belt pack. When turned up to get good ambience it's too bass heavy and is annoying. I'm going to try a fixed location condenser through the mixer next gig and see if that's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 I have not used the AT M2 so I can't comment on them. I have used 4 sets of the M3 (with a fifth receiver) for about 3 years now. They are rack mounted. Antennas were removed and I added a Sennheiser AC-2 combiner with an omni paddle. It was a cheap combiner so I bought it, and the only regret is that the power it supplies for the M3s is too low to power the M3s. I still have to use their wall warts. The AT combiner would correct this problem but it was not available when I bought my setup. Without the combiner, we did have issues with reception at many shows. Since adding the combiner and paddle, we are trouble free. The units sound fine. I am certain that more expensive units sound better, but you decide what the business case is and go from there. We do a lot of shows in the size of 1-5K people and have not regretted this purchase. If we did larger arena shows (read that as much more income) then we might go for better, but for the size/pay shows we do, they have been good units. As far as build quality, there are no issues to speak of other than antenna placement as mentioned. In 3 years, I have lost 2 antennas to breakage. They do get bent from bad placement on the users. One broke from repeated bending, the other broke when it was being handed to me and the user dropped it before I grabbed it. The unit suffered no internal damage, but the antenna did snap off. They were out of warranty and I called AT for replacements and was willing to pay for them. AT just took my info and overnighted two for free to me (overnight at THEIR expense...now that is customer service.) I would not travel with them unless I carried spare antennas, however the cost of antennas vs the cost of better designed units made the decision easy. With reasonable care, I would expect to replace an antennas every 2-4 years on each unit depending on how the user needs to place it. I have not had any locations where the units could not find enough frequencies to operate. The sound quality is more than enough at our level. The build quality has been better than many at the same price, and the one drawback for us has been the antenna issue. I would certainly buy more if needed, until we reach the next level of performance income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted September 14, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 Well the first gig report: We ended up with 2 PSM200s wireless with the SE215 buds. First off, I am impressed with the buds seal. We had some issues when the whole band played with clipping etc, had to adjust gains et all on the fly (on the SL 1642, that means Aux trim, channel sends, receiver trim, and transmitter volume. Will take getting used to, but the signal light has 3 colors, green yellow red to tell you input signal. so all flashing red was a good indication we needed to adjust (as well as the audible clipping haha). A question about ambience, but not really. Is there a way to get that "live drum" feeling in the IEMS? We were putting drums through a little bit, which I ultimately turned all the way down due to clipping. All in all I am happy we went IEM, I don't have keyboards blaring from across the stage, and as my bass player put it "the stage volume was awesome." We have 3 mono mix IEMs and 1 monitor for our drummer/Bass player. This allowed us to cut back 2 monitors we had to bring to every show and the setup time for everything else has decreased by about 10 minutes, hopefully more as we go. I had the AT M2 briefly last year and quickyl sold them, the buds that came with them were pretty awful and no one else went to iems so i felt it was pointless at the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 A question about ambience, but not really. Is there a way to get that "live drum" feeling in the IEMS? We were putting drums through a little bit, which I ultimately turned all the way down due to clipping. We talked about trying out different ideas for ambient sound but we actually ended up using none of that and being fine. I'll occassionally pop one ear-bud slightly out of my ear to get a better feel for the room sound, but that's rarely for more than a few seconds at a time. Re drums: Due to a lack of channels in the monitor mixer, we only run kick, snare & hi-hat through the monitors. Those mics seem to pick up plenty of the toms and ambient drum sounds for a good drum mix. Nothing is ever going to sound quite as "live" through IEMs as they do through wedges; getting adjusted to that new sound is just part of the deal, I think. For one thing (at least with the mixer we use) there's no effects loop so with things likes drums and vocals where you might normally here either the FOH effects or, at the very least, ambient room reverb, everything is just dry, dry, dry. But that has its advantages too. So it's a trade off, IMO. We play better and tighter with everyone hearing a dryer mix. And we certainly are singing better. But it's far from perfect. BTW, we mostly all use A2s and don't have any problems with them. But we all got molded earbuds to go with them. The stock buds suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vinny D Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 "the stage volume was awesome." I will let you know next time I see you............you know I can't lie.......:-)How is the rack working out?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kmart Posted September 14, 2011 Members Share Posted September 14, 2011 A question about ambience, but not really. Is there a way to get that "live drum" feeling in the IEMS? Yeah:Give your drummer a vocal mic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 I will let you know next time I see you............you know I can't lie.......:-)How is the rack working out?? I mean this is coming from Ken who still owns a Boss MT-2. lol he original bees in a can! Please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bajazz Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 Tried Shure PSM 200. Way to noisy and bad sound, dropouts, bad battery compartment, plastic beltpack etc... Then I got this one: http://www.ineargear.com/wireless/mipro808tr.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members carlstretch Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 We don't use an ambient mic either,... we came to the conclusion that it sounds so good in our IEM's,... It can only sound better out front!! LOL. On a side note,.. we play an outdoor festival tonight and we are the 5th or 6th band in today's lineup. We cannot use our IEM's for the first time since buying them. It will be a big change going back to wedges and stage volume for 2 hours. I bet I'll be happy to end the set!! Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 We use the PSM200. It's dead quiet and works perfectly. Never a single problem in the 5+ years we have used them. I use the Shure ambient lav mic but the other guys don't want any ambient sound. I know that the PSM200 is the low end of the usable IEMs but we came off of Nady and Carvin so we might be so happy just because the PSM200 isn't one of those POSs. We have no interest in looking into better IEMs at this time since we really are very happy with what we have. I use custom molds for my E5s and I put them in prior to the show and don't take them out until breakdown. They are so comfortable that I forget they are in. Since I use the lav mic I can hold conversations during breaks and have no reason to take the buds out of my ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bnelly428 Posted September 15, 2011 Author Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 We use the PSM200. It's dead quiet and works perfectly. Never a single problem in the 5+ years we have used them. I use the Shure ambient lav mic but the other guys don't want any ambient sound. I know that the PSM200 is the low end of the usable IEMs but we came off of Nady and Carvin so we might be so happy just because the PSM200 isn't one of those POSs. We have no interest in looking into better IEMs at this time since we really are very happy with what we have.I use custom molds for my E5s and I put them in prior to the show and don't take them out until breakdown. They are so comfortable that I forget they are in. Since I use the lav mic I can hold conversations during breaks and have no reason to take the buds out of my ears. So far so good here with the PSM200, obviously very early on. I thought the sound quality was fine. Still need to tweak, but we should be good in a few more shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 Are you using the cascading trick for more gain? Seems you thought that was one issue with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted September 15, 2011 Members Share Posted September 15, 2011 Are you using the cascading tick for more gain? Seems you thought that was one issue with them. We do. It does make a huge difference. It takes the headroom up towards the higher end units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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