50th class reunion gig. What to play?

[wesg]

I told you a while back that if you don't have monitors, you should set the mains up behind the band. Your guy is singing out of tune, being able to hear himself might help this (not sure, though - presumably you had monitors at the casino?). Singing in time and the rights notes would be the next things to work on.

 

In the 3.11.2017 videos, your bassist's singing too loud. That is also a symptom of having no monitors, but it's also a symptom of having no sound guy. If you set the mains up behind the band, lightly compress the vocals subgroup, and set the compressor so that the singer is just tickling the gain reduction lights when singing solo, the mix will improve.

 

What did your singer say when you played "Further On Up The Road" for him? Or "Jumping Jack Flash"?

 

Wes

[Vito Corleone]

Guido How do I find the link to the videe?

 

​On that "edit" page you linked before (which you can open but others can't) there should be a box that says "URL" or "Share" or some such that has the URL for the public page.

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah can be ok singer. But a loyal and great guy who has done more things for this band than anyone. Don't like the idea of looking for another singer cause tensions in band. Got in trouble one time posting for musicians on Craigs list. If somebody in the band found out I was posting for musicians without their consent they would let me have it..

 

​I get that. And obviously this is just a fun thing for you guys to do. Which is great. Playing music is a blast and a great hobby. But really, you just be sticking to having fun in the rehearsal room and the occasional backyard party for friends. Especially with a front singer who isn't very good, public gigs probably aren't something you should be putting a lot of effort into doing.

 

​Consider it like any other hobby. Just because you love painting or making pottery doesn't mean you have to open up a shop and try to sell it.

[chord123]

You should not be keying in on the vocals instead listen how tight the band is.Bob Dylan was the worst singer in the world so was Jimi Hendrix. My guy is a better singer than both them combined. Taking Care of Buisness

 

[wesg]

You should not be keying in on the vocals instead listen how tight the band is.

 

Sorry, we're going to have to disagree on this one. I believe vocals are the single most important thing in a band.

 

Once your guy starts writing songs as good as Dillon's, we can start comparing their vocal skills. I'm not a big Dillon fan, but I don't recall him being overtly pitchy. He just sounds like he's singing with a mouth full of marbles.

 

By the way, I like those mic stands booms. Are they K&M?

 

Wes

[Vito Corleone]

Well, if you don't want people to key in on your vocals, you should probably be playing instrumentals. Vocals are always going to be the thing people pay the most attention to. People hum melodies and sing lyrics. Not the bass part.

[chord123]

Indeed sir Those stands are K&M. Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing.

 

Did the Taking Care of Buisness link work?

 

 

[chord123]

Some more songs from the bar.

Carol

Sweet Home Alabama

Keep Your Hands to Yourself

Gloria

[daddymack]

Well...I hate to say this, I'm going to be totally honest...I wouldn't hire you guys.

Ever.

But now I see why you don't have enough material to really gig...even the material you think is presentable isn't.

Seriously.

I guess maybe the bar is much lower in Iowa...I watched a little of a couple of the single song vids on yt, could not bear to get through any one song...but I put myself through JJF Charity Show and the rest of that set because it was the most 'instructional'...

I don't know about you, but there are certain things a band has to have and be able to do, and yours doesn't...

but let's break this all down...

1)singer: he may be a great friend, but he should not be fronting a band, anywhere. He goes flat, doesn't know lyrics, has terrible mic technique...and he doesn't move well. The 'Jumping Jack Flash' video...he is flat 85% of the time, and speaking of time, his is off.

2) 'lead guitarist': The guy has no rhythmic sense and no ear for his guitar tone. He looks stiff on stage and plays too loud, especially on JJF...not good. With that line up, I would not have tried that song. A second guitar might have helped...might have....probably not after seeing 'Further on up the Road'. On TCoB...good lord, does he not know to turn up on solos and down on rhythm? And does he not have a tuner on stage? SHA...totally out of tune. Sorry...he really is not 'stage ready' in any sense.

3) drummer: On the 'Johnny B. Goode' vid, he does a stick flip...and drops the beat...pitiful. On 'Taking Care of Business'...he isn't. On 'Jumping Jack Flash' he loses the tempo and fudges, leaving the guitarist in the lurch, not that it would have mattered...

4) keyboard player: I could see someone moving behind the keys on JJF, but all I heard was a descending line, once, briefly...too bad, he might have been able to keep the guitarist on target....is that you? TURN UP!!!!

5) your bassist: Should probably not do the talking for the band...comparing you guys to a KISS concert?...geez louise...but maybe he should be the singer!

 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with you guys wanting to have a band, have some fun and play music you like...but asking to get paid for it? No.

 

 

 

[Vito Corleone]

 

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with you guys wanting to have a band, have some fun and play music you like...but asking to get paid for it? No.

 

 

 

Yeah, that's what I was saying with just keep it to the backyard parties.

 

I don't blame bands like this for wanting to gig. We all want to gig. And I really don't know what to say about people who can't recognize their own weaknesses to the degree it comes back to hurt them. Especially when you can see and hear it on video. And that goes for all factors in life, not just playing music I suppose. I guess we all have that inability at some point of aspect in our lives? My hair might not look as good as I think it does? I dunno. That is what it is, I guess.

 

But it DOES really bother me that the live venues do not have a higher bar for entry. Even if the band is playing for free and bringing in 20 friends--- Someone needs to say "sorry, but come back when you've improved."

 

And we wonder why, when younger people see a sign out front that says "live music", that they instead head across the street to the DJ....

 

[daddymack]

But it DOES really bother me that the live venues do not have a higher bar for entry. Even if the band is playing for free and bringing in 20 friends--- Someone needs to say "sorry, but come back when you've improved."

If I walked into that bar, and heard them try to start 'Further On Up The Road' the way they did in the video, I would have turned around and walked out.

 

 

[chord123]

Guido and Daddymack I understand people wait at line at everyone of your performances-------. to get out. So why is the both of you don't have any singing skills or talent to accomplish anything in music If I were you.I would give up a music career. Most everyone I hear says you are riding the coat tails of other far more talented players.Face it you were never good at anything. That's why both of you are a 50 year old men still living at home with your parents wanna be rock stars. If I were you I would shut up Guido because you only make yourself foolish each time you open your mouth. .Most everybody says you both suck as singes, musicians and people.

 

You will never play a casino show or anything close to the likes of what Mike has done for my band. If I was in your band I would fire your ass and your band immediately.Guido or Daddymack neither of you have lasted with any band at least what I've heard for any length of time. I'll tell you something..Why you feel the need to go around put down other people? Putting other people down does not put you above them and make you superior to them. You think you are clever but you can't even think a coherent thought to support your stupid views.let alone write a nice word This is the problem people see Guido Trust me it's everyone who sees this.To think either you Guido or Daddymack could walk into any casino,club or anywhere else and put together a deal for a band is laughable.Neither of you would be good at it.

 

Guido don't sing on stage only sing in the shower. You will thank me someday for this helpful tip. Really you suck and your videos suck.. in your video you gained big time. What little success you had as a band had nothing to with you. You would not be in the videos if it was not for talent of your fat lady singers. But your band is sloppy out of tune bunch of fat bastards. And please drop the fat lady singer. And stop making put downs. it's rude and makes you look very stupid.. If you drop the fat lady singer Guido you won't ever play much Guido.cause you don't have anything to offer the music world. You only made it this far because of other peoples talent cause you have no talent that I see of .

 

You and the fat lady are cool just jamming then great but , nobody will take either of you seriously.so don't play in public in front of people cause we don't want to hear you sing or your fat ladies dance. Look at what I'm telling you Guido .See that this is actually because of you and bad decisions..You think you are great player you aren't, most of us have disabilities in our playing . You're no different.. Nobody is going to stay with you Guido not even past day one.. Go back and and get off the stage forever cause you and your fat ladies suck and your band suck .Then come back and say thanks chord ..Get it fixed Guido and Daddymack.

 

Pretty much why everyone who hears you guys says you both suck .Yup you guys are a real pro. take care

[Vito Corleone]

Yeah. That was weird.

[senorblues]

On Bandmix, you're asked to rate your level of playing and to indicate how many gigs you've played. All we have to go on here is a misleading designation (newbie?) which supposedly indicates how long you've contributed to the site.

 

I was watching a segment on PBS news hour last night on experts and and how so many people feel free to consider their own limited resources as equally valid. Evaluating musicianship is so problematic because so much of what we hear that sounds pleasing to the average person takes very little, if any, formal musical training to perform. You can put together a group to replicate this music and do something recognizable that may work for you so long as you all have the same standards. It may sound recognizable to others outside the group and will be accepted, again so long as you all have the same standard.

 

I don't have statistics to back it up, but I think it's true that fewer people these days have musical training than in the past. No instrument instruction, no theory training, no participation in a choir. Along with that comes the total lack of any knowledgable and objective feedback. We're all operating in our own little universe . . . unless and until someone comes along and gives it to us straight. We can listen and learn, or reject it and stay where we are. The above is an extreme example, but a version of this happens all the time if you have any band experience at all.

[Vito Corleone]

On Bandmix, you're asked to rate your level of playing and to indicate how many gigs you've played. All we have to go on here is a misleading designation (newbie?) which supposedly indicates how long you've contributed to the site.

 

I was watching a segment on PBS news hour last night on experts and and how so many people feel free to consider their own limited resources as equally valid. Evaluating musicianship is so problematic because so much of what we hear that sounds pleasing to the average person takes very little, if any, formal musical training to perform. You can put together a group to replicate this music and do something recognizable that may work for you so long as you all have the same standards. It may sound recognizable to others outside the group and will be accepted, again so long as you all have the same standard.

 

I don't have statistics to back it up, but I think it's true that fewer people these days have musical training than in the past. No instrument instruction, no theory training, no participation in a choir. Along with that comes the total lack of any knowledgable and objective feedback. We're all operating in our own little universe . . . unless and until someone comes along and gives it to us straight. We can listen and learn, or reject it and stay where we are. The above is an extreme example, but a version of this happens all the time if you have any band experience at all.

 

Good points here.

 

I think that, since the rock era at least, there have always been a lot of self trained players. I have often been the most formally trained player in bands I have been in or the only one who can even read music. And I don't have a lot of formal training.

 

Is it even less today? Maybe. But I think one of the biggest factors in this particular case (or seems like it anyway) is untrained players who don't even really think about getting started at it until they much older.

 

Playing music---individually or in a band ---isn't the easiest thing in the world to do well. And in a lot of cases, especially without formal training, it can sometimes take years just to get to the point where you don't suck. And paying gigs really shouldn't be the training ground.

 

We all started out somewhere. For most of us it was when we were young hashing it out and developing our skills with other young guys and that youthful look and energy covered for a lot of the inexperience. If we got lucky, we fell in with some older, more experienced guys and they helped cover for us while we learned.

 

But seeing a bunch of old guys still just trying to work out the very basics of musicianship and stagecraft? Yeah. That's kinda painful to watch.

[wesg]

LOL. Chord123, I know your feelings have been hurt, but the ad hominem attack is totally uncool. Not to mention factually incorrect. I don't know DaddyMack, but Guido has an incredible band that works at a very high level, in a busy, competitive, high-dollar market. It is head and shoulders above your band, which is no surprise since he and many of the players have been working professionally since the early 1980s. There is a huge difference between musicians who have been at it for 30 years and musicians who have been at it for 30 months. You complain about having to learn new songs in reasonable timeframes............it's not uncommon for working pros to learn songs from the car stereo on the way to the gig, try them once during sound check, and then perform them for a large audience. You are not at that level.

 

If you were wise and truly interested in honing your craft, you would re-read their constructive criticism, and make something out of it. Getting all butt-hurt and insulting people does nothing to help you. Learn.

 

I'm not the most experienced guy in this forum, but I've been around the block a couple of times. I also have a reasonably high IQ and good judgement. I know that's far easier to learn from others' experience, even if that hurts my feelings, than it is to figure it all out from scratch on my own. Guido has helped me more times than I can count, even if he wasn't aware of it (thanks for the Wedding Form, BTW - really helped take over me manage what could have been a disaster last year; it was a smashing success instead).

[daddymack]

Guido and Daddymack I understand people wait at line at everyone of your performances-------. to get out. So why is the both of you don't have any singing skills or talent to accomplish anything in music If I were you.I would give up a music career. Most everyone I hear says you are riding the coat tails of other far more talented players.Face it you were never good at anything. That's why both of you are a 50 year old men still living at home with your parents wanna be rock stars. If I were you I would shut up Guido because you only make yourself foolish each time you open your mouth. .Most everybody says you both suck as singes, musicians and people.

 

You will never play a casino show or anything close to the likes of what Mike has done for my band. If I was in your band I would fire your ass and your band immediately.Guido or Daddymack neither of you have lasted with any band at least what I've heard for any length of time. I'll tell you something..Why you feel the need to go around put down other people? Putting other people down does not put you above them and make you superior to them. You think you are clever but you can't even think a coherent thought to support your stupid views.let alone write a nice word This is the problem people see Guido Trust me it's everyone who sees this.To think either you Guido or Daddymack could walk into any casino,club or anywhere else and put together a deal for a band is laughable.Neither of you would be good at it.

 

Get it fixed Guido and Daddymack.

 

Pretty much why everyone who hears you guys says you both suck .Yup you guys are a real pro. take care

 

Chord123: If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger, eh?

 

This whole thing started with us trying to help you with your shot at a good paying gig. I made a solid list of songs that would be easy to learn and fit perfectly with the gig you were after. Little by little it became apparent that your band was not up to the task, by your own admission. Then we saw the vids; and it all came clear. When some people tried to point out things that needed to be improved for your band to take the step to the next level, you deflected and denied. Our intent was to help show you what was behind your own acknowledgement that your band could not manage the challenges it was facing, and who/what were the speed bumps and stumbling blocks.

 

I don't know who you spoke to about me, but they obviously don't know me, or anything about me. I have no pretense about wanting to be a rock star; I gave that up in the late 70s when I went back to college.

 

I have been fortunate to have 'coat-tailed' a number of superior musicians over the years [starting with singing in the NYC All-City Chorale in the 1960s when I was in junior high school]. Currently, our bassist [and my good friend, like Mike is yours], was a Stax house bassist in the early 70s, and toured and recorded with guys like Isaac Hayes, and has a song in the 'Straight Out Of Compton' movie. If I did, as you suggest, 'suck', I seriously doubt he would have pushed to have me hired into two bands over the last couple of years, or would have signed on with two of my bands.

 

I wasn't born a competent musician, I worked very hard at it, and took advice, paid attention and listened critically to recordings of my work. I spent a lot of time just getting my sense of time and rhythm honed, a completely separate process from learning an instrument. I studied music and piano in college, and play a number of instruments...some worse than others.

 

I've been a soundman, sideman and studio session player, as well as a band leader, in LA since the early 1970s, and before that had a successful duo and a rock band in NYC. I toured as a sideman [acoustic guitar and backing vocals] with a national act at the age of 19.

 

I have been leading the same blues band in Los Angeles since 1999; we were regular openers at BB Kings Hollywood [in the 00s] until it closed [not my fault!] and sold out our shows there every time. That band has also done festivals, clubs and other large stage work in Los Angeles and all over So Cal. Our last gig was in the main ballroom on the Queen Mary in Long Beach. We have opened for the Charlie Daniels Band and War, among others.

 

I currently host a Pro Jam in Los Angeles leading a 4 piece band and 3 piece horn section, which attracts a variety of 'Hollywood' session players and road warriors. I am also co-producing and performing in a band with a well-known film composer/arranger.

 

Fire me? Go ahead. I've plenty of work, so much so that I've stopped doing my solo act.

'Get it fixed'? From where I sit, nothing is broken here...I've probably played more paying gigs some years than everyone in your band put together ever will.

 

You were actually right about one thing...when my mother had to be put into a care facility due to Alzheimers, my father, at 88, didn't want to give up the house they'd lived in for forty years, so we [my wife and I] gave up our house and moved in with him, so I chauffeur him, do the cooking, do the shopping, manage the household, etc.

 

We were trying to be constructively critical, but your deflective responses and denial told us there was a need for a reality check. Your reply above indicates we were correct. There is, as I said, nothing wrong with wanting to have a band, and wanting to play music. There is nothing wrong with getting together with people you like and trust and have other things in common, and playing songs that make you happy. There is, however, something wrong with expecting people to pay you money when you are not at a professional level.

 

There is a huge gap between professional, semi-pro, amateur and hobbyist. There is a huge investment of time and perseverance to bridge that gap, but there is nothing that says you have to bridge it, but one needs to know where one is on the scale.

 

If you were wide-eyed kids, who were not experienced in the world and just starting out, we would likely have been more encouraging and less specifically critical, but, as you are all adults, straight talk seemed appropriate. Apparently we misjudged your ability to look at your band from the outside...and for that I am truly sorry.

[Vito Corleone]

LOL. Chord123, I know your feelings have been hurt, but the ad hominem attack is totally uncool. Not to mention factually incorrect. I don't know DaddyMack, but Guido has an incredible band that works at a very high level, in a busy, competitive, high-dollar market. It is head and shoulders above your band, which is no surprise since he and many of the players have been working professionally since the early 1980s. There is a huge difference between musicians who have been at it for 30 years and musicians who have been at it for 30 months. You complain about having to learn new songs in reasonable timeframes............it's not uncommon for working pros to learn songs from the car stereo on the way to the gig, try them once during sound check, and then perform them for a large audience. You are not at that level.

 

If you were wise and truly interested in honing your craft, you would re-read their constructive criticism, and make something out of it. Getting all butt-hurt and insulting people does nothing to help you. Learn.

 

I'm not the most experienced guy in this forum, but I've been around the block a couple of times. I also have a reasonably high IQ and good judgement. I know that's far easier to learn from others' experience, even if that hurts my feelings, than it is to figure it all out from scratch on my own. Guido has helped me more times than I can count, even if he wasn't aware of it (thanks for the Wedding Form, BTW - really helped take over me manage what could have been a disaster last year; it was a smashing success instead).

 

 

 

Gee, Wes. Thanks for all the kind words! And glad I could be of useful service.

 

But yes, the point is to take criticism--even the harsh stuff--constructively and not just lash out with "well, you guys suck too!"

 

The irony being, that my present band ISN'T the best group of musicians imaginable which has always been part of my point in posting this forum. That I can give an example and hopefully provide some tips in showing people that 4 old guys who are in as much for the fun of playing together as anything can have a pretty good degree of success at it if you approach it smartly. That hopefully my example and experiences have some value others can take and apply to their own situations. I've always thought it is at least as important to be smart as it is to be good in ANY business endeavor. And I don't think I'd be capable of teaching anyone how to be a better musician on a forum such as this anyway (even if I was better than they were) But I do know I can offer some business and marketing and 'gigging' tips.

 

And I've taken my share of criticism on this forum as well. I've had to listen to "you guys aren't that tight" or "your keyboard player sucks" or whatever and that's fine. I try to learn to from all of that as well even when it hurts to hear it and the instinct is to lash back. Who knows, there might even be a nugget or two in Chord123's rant. (Maybe I'll talk to the girls about dropping a few pounds? )

 

But yeah---I could have replaced most of these guys years ago with better players if I really wanted to and be a much better, tighter band, but for me--at this age---it has always just been about how can I get the most out of what I do with a group of friends. I'm all about looking for ways to gloss over the imperfections and work within the given set of limitations. That's the key to ANY successful business/marketing. Know your strengths and weaknesses and maximize that potential.

 

As far as the experience goes? Yeah. I've played 1,000s of live paid performances at just about every level and type of venue and gig imaginable over the last 40 years. So all of that does count for something, I hope. And I know Daddymack has been hashing it out during all that time in places like LA and NYC where the competition and level of musicianship is BRUTAL. I bow to musicians with that degree of skill and experience.

 

 

 

[Vito Corleone]

 

I don't know who you spoke to about me, but they obviously don't know me, or anything about me.

 

 

Obviously.

 

And while there were many, many gems in that piece, my favorite one might have been this:

 

You will never play a casino show or anything close to the likes of what Mike has done for my band.

 

Gosh, Daddymack. I dunno. Do you think you or I will ever one day be able to rise up to the level of playing a CASINO SHOW? lol.

 

Silly, silly stuff. But was pretty entertaining. Kinda takes me back to the old days around here and WadesKeys late night rantings.

 

People shouldn't get drunk and post late on a Friday night. That almost never works out well....

[daddymack]

gee, Guido, you're in Reno, right? Not many casino gigs there for you I would guess...

[Vito Corleone]

Played in casinos once or twice over the years.

[MartinC]

Wow, I check in and find this thread. Chord123 if you are still there, realize that most musicians, no matter what level they might have reached, have at some point been humbled. How they reacted to it in part determined what happened after that. Your first reaction is understandable, but imo the feedback you received was valid. Read about Charlie Parker, and what happened to him when he put himself in a situation he wasn't ready for. And more importantly, how he reacted after.

The best musicians I've been around started playing when they were young kids. Most took lessons, went to music schools, studied with great musicians. Some things in life are like that. Doesn't mean you can't keep improving. I've been playing guitar for over forty years and I still hope to improve, I still study, but I think at this point it's clear my background, history, and talent have their limits. Keep playing, but also study, take lessons, listen and learn, and enjoy the journey. But don't stick your head in the sand, it isn't productive.

[modulusman]

Guido and Daddymack I understand people wait at line at everyone of your performances-------. to get out. So why is the both of you don't have any singing skills or talent to accomplish anything in music If I were you.I would give up a music career. Most everyone I hear says you are riding the coat tails of other far more talented players.Face it you were never good at anything. That's why both of you are a 50 year old men still living at home with your parents wanna be rock stars. If I were you I would shut up Guido because you only make yourself foolish each time you open your mouth. .Most everybody says you both suck as singes, musicians and people.

 

You will never play a casino show or anything close to the likes of what Mike has done for my band. If I was in your band I would fire your ass and your band immediately.Guido or Daddymack neither of you have lasted with any band at least what I've heard for any length of time. I'll tell you something..Why you feel the need to go around put down other people? Putting other people down does not put you above them and make you superior to them. You think you are clever but you can't even think a coherent thought to support your stupid views.let alone write a nice word This is the problem people see Guido Trust me it's everyone who sees this.To think either you Guido or Daddymack could walk into any casino,club or anywhere else and put together a deal for a band is laughable.Neither of you would be good at it.

 

Guido don't sing on stage only sing in the shower. You will thank me someday for this helpful tip. Really you suck and your videos suck.. in your video you gained big time. What little success you had as a band had nothing to with you. You would not be in the videos if it was not for talent of your fat lady singers. But your band is sloppy out of tune bunch of fat bastards. And please drop the fat lady singer. And stop making put downs. it's rude and makes you look very stupid.. If you drop the fat lady singer Guido you won't ever play much Guido.cause you don't have anything to offer the music world. You only made it this far because of other peoples talent cause you have no talent that I see of .

 

You and the fat lady are cool just jamming then great but , nobody will take either of you seriously.so don't play in public in front of people cause we don't want to hear you sing or your fat ladies dance. Look at what I'm telling you Guido .See that this is actually because of you and bad decisions..You think you are great player you aren't, most of us have disabilities in our playing . You're no different.. Nobody is going to stay with you Guido not even past day one.. Go back and and get off the stage forever cause you and your fat ladies suck and your band suck .Then come back and say thanks chord ..Get it fixed Guido and Daddymack.

 

Pretty much why everyone who hears you guys says you both suck .Yup you guys are a real pro. take care

 

Get back on your medication and do the world a favor and never inflict your band on the general public again.

[Vito Corleone]

Appears the singers biggest problem is pitch and to much lesser degree his tone or phrasing.

 

]

 

THIS is sigworthy, however

[AJ6stringsting]

Wow, I gave up my gigging days in L.A. to take care of my elderly Mom after she had a major operation, I didn't like the idea of her being shoved into an old folks facility just to wait and die.

I've been stuck in Fresno, C.A., nepotistic / mediocre / hobbyist music scene since the 1990's .... I miss playing with World Class , inspiration musicians.

It's pretty stagnant here.