Moderators daddymack Posted March 27, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2017 i respectfully disagree. time is motionless. at most it might oscillate much like the molecules of water in a wave... tiny little wobbling ellipses , not what our "common sense" dictates to be truth... its physics, not woo woo... i suggest our " experiential perception" is limited from,oneet due to our extremely limited human sensory abilities. people tell me they can wrap their minds around infinity yet are unable or unwilling to see eternity equal to the blink of an eye? time has neither beginning nor end yet im told that it can be measured? the idea that its an accepted consruct is nothing more than flat earth rhetoric designed to placate people into not thinking for themselves ... well everybody else says its true so it must be, eh? there was a time when our experiential perception placed us in the center of our solar system and the sun revolved around teh earth... just saying. And we over came that construct, as we will likely overcome Einsteinian theory and our self-centered and hopelessly basic view of quantum mechanics. We measure our concept of time passage by revolutions of the earth around the sun and earth's rotational process...this is what humans perceive time to be, not the endless unfathomable continuum of theorists and scientists. We do this because we can, and because we need to segment and compartmentalize time for our own use, right or wrong. Absent the mechanical approach of hours, minutes and seconds our bodies would still have their circadian rhythm, we would still perceive the difference between night and day, notice the shifts of sunlight at the solstices and equinoxes and the passing of the seasons. This is how man measures the immeasurable...and if we didn't, no one would have ever ventured out to sea beyond view of the shore, but we did because we could conceive that time = distance, even on a rudimentary scale. It took millennia for us to achieve the level of thought that produced Einstein. One day, he may be proven to have been incorrect, but because we measure time against our lives, we may not be here to relish that potential achievement, but we can theorize that it may happen. On this planet, we are the only creatures that have the ability to do any of this. There are probably millions of scientific facts that we do not know, yet...our scientific view that time is an endless stream is already somewhat compartmentalized by the big bang and the expanding universe theory. Men need to put things in 'boxes', it is what we do, and it is likely how our brains store information. We could be so far off base due to our location on the outer fringe of one small galaxy that we have no ability to really understand any of this, and the endless time 'thing' could just be another construct we accept in order to make sense of our universe as we can perceive it and conceive it. In five hundred years, out great great great grandchildren will be as bemused by our pseudo-scientific constructs as we are of the Renaissance thinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted March 27, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 27, 2017 dm...overcoming antiquated concepts was the point I was alluding to in that statement... I don't honestly find too many rational thinkers still subscribe to flat earth or earth as center and i would never insult your intelligence by assuming you thought in like fashion...in measuring the so called passage of time against my life, I am faced again with the infinity of existence... and the total non existence of this "time concept"as as long as the perception of what life actually is remains undefined, there is no defined conclusion to this puzzle...(if indeed there is or even needs to be such)I see your point easily... but I believe it is illusory... you seem to view from a more physical slant and this is easily more acceptable to the masses, I will concede that... but there is obvious danger in going with the flow... especially when it allows us to be comfortable with not growing, instead of sharpening our wits against worthy contrary ideas... in reading your response I would ask you to please not talk to me as if I have the understanding of a child... I understand perfectly well that to which you speak... perhaps better than you do yourself, which is exactly the reason I see it as illusion... perhaps these obviously simplistic explanations are given because you don't understand me either... its ok... not many do, it goes with the territory and one gets used to it after a time... sort of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 27, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2017 We shall agree to disagree, then. I exist in a physical space, defined by our known laws of physics applicable to this particular space, and I have grown accustomed to it. Pondering the imponderable is a great distraction, but is ultimately a fruitless endeavor. Had all men taken your approach, we would likely still live in caves and hunt and gather daily for our immediate needs. Do you not accept gigs on days yet to come? Are you not then expecting a future occurrence? Zen is zen, but this is now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members steve mac Posted March 27, 2017 Members Share Posted March 27, 2017 I have a watch that doesnt work.... or is it working twice a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted March 27, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 27, 2017 this is purely personal conjecture and nothing in evidence to back any of it... on either side... but I will make you a wager... a gentlemans agreement, since the ultimate outcome shall be either confirmed or denied in a plane where the physical isn't much of a probability. here is how we shall play it...if I am correct and time is seen to be a non sequitur according to your definition, then I win... if indeed time is proven to us to be a mechanical march of segmented structure to which we are chained, then you win... loser owes the winner a dollar... since neither of us will be carrying dollars... send me your addy, I will send you a dollar... you send me one... either way we've prepaid our wager and we will either be able to say we settled the old account long ago... or we will always be settling it, always have settled it, and will always be settling it... all at the same time... *cough* if youre lucky I might send the "wheres George" dollar ive had in solitary confinement in my desk drawer since December of 2002... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 27, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2017 in our world it is correct twice a day...in Voltan's universe, it doesn't need to exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 27, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 27, 2017 December 2002 isn't now...you owe me that dollar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shaster Posted March 28, 2017 Members Share Posted March 28, 2017 Seems to me Chicago will write, did write and is writing a song about this as we speak - or spoke... I'm of the mind that time may not be real, but we perceive that matter responds to time as if it was, so the effects are real enough. I do know that I was double booked this Thursday, and telling my agent that time was immaterial would not have furthered my cause. I also realize that my cheeky, or flippant comments may only help convey my ignorance of the true inner workings of the universe, but lately, the more I know, the less I want to know - too depressing and/or scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted March 28, 2017 Members Share Posted March 28, 2017 Seems to me Chicago will write, did write and is writing a song about this as we speak - or spoke... Ah, but I was so much older then, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted March 28, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2017 there is nothing but now... never has been... .. ive asked politely not to be actually, no... this is for the best...peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Voltan Posted March 28, 2017 Author Members Share Posted March 28, 2017 its ok... someday youll realize who actually owes whom the dollar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted March 28, 2017 Moderators Share Posted March 28, 2017 you can pay me in the now, though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted March 31, 2017 Members Share Posted March 31, 2017 Interesting stuff, and I've read plenty of scientific books about it, some of which I understand, and some of which I do not. Some of it I agree with, some I instinctively disagree with. Hawking, Planck, Einstein, and the others have the math and the science. But remember, the math proved the crystal spheres too. Newton physics apply here on Earth, but I am here on Earth and I'm not at the wall of last scattering. So for all practical purposes, I try to live in the moment when I can, and plan for the future when I must. YMMV. Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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