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Do you ever feel like you're learning Karate by book?


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Hey all,

 

There doesn't appear to be too many beginners on this particular forum, but I gather that we are all on a continuum of knowledge and experience.

 

I have a demanding day job, a wife I love, various hobbies, and I of course have music. I consume as much music/audio knowledge as I can, whether it's books, articles, forums, podcasts, YouTube videos, etc. Frankly I can't imagine trying to learn mixing and mastering without the internet, as it provides one of the only two-way communication opportunities with a niche subject like audio.

 

With all of this being said, I still feel like it's a piss poor facsimile for the kind of knowledge that would come from spending time with someone really in the know. I know there are some professional "camps" where you can hang out and take classes with legends, but I've never given it much thought. I don't know if it would be a rehash of stuff I've read, or what the skill level of the material would be. The absolute best opportunity would be to simply sit with a master and watch and listen, but that kind of opportunity doesn't exist for most of us. Unless you are legitimately apprenticing and pursuing a career, you won't likely have access to someone like that.

 

The reference in the post title comes from The Karate Kid. Mr. Miyagi enters an apartment to fix a faucet where Daniel is practicing moves, and he asks him in that famous voice:

 

"You learn...by book?"

 

It's as if he's saying, "Best of luck".

 

Sigh.

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I'm more along the lines of arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

Butch and Sundance planning their next stop though they're about shot to pieces.

 

I find there are many correlations between musical pursuits and various martial arts, actually.

 

It's kinda hard to beat, 'for the money' though around here. The masters share generously and one can go try it out on the streets of their own studio, and get feedback on the results.

 

I can't help myself sometimes, but I'm here way more to learn than to profess. And my efforts have seen the benefits thanks to your threads, others, and the info therein. :philthumb:

 

Edited by RockViolin
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You're absolutely right - there's nothing like learning along side someone who knows what he or she is doing. And that's the way it used to be. People who wanted to learn to play, write, and arrange music played in bands where, hopefully, at least somebody knew something that other members could learn from. Someone who wanted to learn to be a recording engineer could get a really low paying job in a studio, watch, learn, and eventually get handed projects. There were enough studios to support most of those really serious about learning the trade, and enough venues so that bands could find places to perfect their craft while playing to real audiences.

 

But

 

Today, the world has changed. Instead of a dedicated group of high schoolers getting together and playing music in a garage, there are billions of individuals who think they have something to say musicially and there aren't enough people to mentor them. Meanwhile, recording studios are shutting down at a fearsome rate since every one of those music-playing individuals can record himself and doesn't need a studio.

 

Today you can go to Berklee or you can watch YouTube videos.

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There are a couple of places that you can go to today where you can still get some of that 'hands on' stuff. One place is a local church. Most churches today record their services and many do a webcast. Before we moved, the church I was in did CD recordings, DVD recordings, and a webcast - every Sunday. We had an area setup just for audio recording. One of the neat things about this is that you learn to mix multiple types of music as well as spoken word. We had contemporary music (much like pop music today), choir, and spoken word (primarily the preacher) on a weekly basis. Then we would also have orchestral music with large choir during holidays (Christmas and Easter) as well as kids productions. There was also the occasional music group on various Sundays or weekdays, that spanned from bluegrass to Celtic to flute ensembles to brass/trombone groups to others, and at all levels of experience and prfessionalism. I can honestly say I learned a lot about mixing, plus mic placement and sound routing. And you learn to make corrections on the fly, as there are no 'do overs' when recording live music.

 

The other place where you may also get some of that same experience is through a local community theater. Here you get to practice recording before the live event. Depending on the level of the theater group, they may do a video of the play and combine several nights performances into a single video.

 

Hope that helps just a little bit.

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All good advice, I'll add that this forum welcomes beginners.

 

Much of the learning process comes through experimentation. I've worked with a lot of top engineers and producers and of course soaked up what I could, but ultimately, the techniques that have served me best are the ones that result of rolling up my sleeves and trying to get the best sound possible.

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I feel that way about several things. For the last 10 years or so I haven't done much music but have concentrated on photography and travel. At the moment, I am pretty good with photo post processing software and my cameras. However, I want to get back into music and upgraded to the lifetime Sonar (I used Cakewalk since it was version 3.) Even when I try to do the simplest things like audition loops (I used to be able to do that I think, audition them before I added them to a tune) I can't figure out how or it take 15 minutes. I am also trying to upgrade my computer a mere 4 years after my last one (and daily use.) In that time I helped someone set up their desktop as well and purchased and set up a new laptop for my mother, but the new computer was so strange I couldn't figure out even how to connect the monitor (I thought I had but it keeps telling me I have no signal.) So with many things I feel like I am "learning from a book." My description is more like I went to sleep and woke up on Mars. Even when I have a book (and manuals are often not provided these days) it is almost impossible (I would like to see someone read the manual for the Sony DSC RX10 III then tell me they understand how the camera works..... much less how to use it!) Aaaarrrrrgggggh.

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Hey all,

 

There doesn't appear to be too many beginners on this particular forum, but I gather that we are all on a continuum of knowledge and experience.

 

I have a demanding day job, a wife I love, various hobbies, and I of course have music. I consume as much music/audio knowledge as I can, whether it's books, articles, forums, podcasts, YouTube videos, etc. Frankly I can't imagine trying to learn mixing and mastering without the internet, as it provides one of the only two-way communication opportunities with a niche subject like audio.

 

With all of this being said, I still feel like it's a piss poor facsimile for the kind of knowledge that would come from spending time with someone really in the know. I know there are some professional "camps" where you can hang out and take classes with legends, but I've never given it much thought. I don't know if it would be a rehash of stuff I've read, or what the skill level of the material would be. The absolute best opportunity would be to simply sit with a master and watch and listen, but that kind of opportunity doesn't exist for most of us. Unless you are legitimately apprenticing and pursuing a career, you won't likely have access to someone like that.

 

The reference in the post title comes from The Karate Kid. Mr. Miyagi enters an apartment to fix a faucet where Daniel is practicing moves, and he asks him in that famous voice:

 

"You learn...by book?"

 

It's as if he's saying, "Best of luck".

 

Sigh.

 

 

DAW and gear manufacturers have dived heedlessly into the swamp of complexity for generations. Designers apparently don't understand simplicity is not just a preference. It's a virtually inevitable outcome. Complex interfaces eventually fall prey to simpler, more intuitive ways to accomplish the same task, in the same way QWERTY hand phones fell victim to the i-Phone.

 

Musicians and studio mavens try to navigate the swamp of complexity but it's futile. New designs, new gear, corporate mergers, inter alia happen and the old gear and navigational paths used to operate it have become obsolete.

 

You'll likely be better-served in the long run if you spend your time with the wife and hobbies. There are plenty of low-cost studios who can do a good job for you without you taking the time to learn what they already know.

 

I just bought a mixer that allows me to download a free version of a leading DAW. I haven't even bothered.

Edited by Etienne Rambert
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You'll likely be better-served in the long run if you spend your time with the wife and hobbies. There are plenty of low-cost studios who can do a good job for you without you taking the time to learn what they already know.

 

That's a pretty grim assessment Etienne, but I'm too far over the precipice. If I were starting out with zero gear and zero knowledge, I might heed your advice and leave recording/mixing/mastering to the studios. But I've studied this (in one way, shape, or form) for decades, and I'm close enough to where I can see the possibility of creating something really special.

 

Some days though, it can be a challenge.

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That's a pretty grim assessment Etienne, but I'm too far over the precipice. If I were starting out with zero gear and zero knowledge, I might heed your advice and leave recording/mixing/mastering to the studios. But I've studied this (in one way, shape, or form) for decades, and I'm close enough to where I can see the possibility of creating something really special.

 

Some days though, it can be a challenge.

 

 

I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all answer. For me, working in the studio is also a voyage of self-discovery. I've learned a lot about myself in the process.

 

I can see the possibility of creating something really special

 

And when you do, I want to hear it!!!!! Perseverence furthers.

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