Members the_big_e Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Our band is having an ongoing discussion about getting a feedback eliminator/killer to help/simplify/speedup with the PA setup and feedback (or getting rid of it/preventing it, we've already got the feedback LOL!).. Wondering if anyone on here uses them or has opinions on them. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Nope! Proper Gain structure, quiet band & good sound guy will have a better impact on feedback rejection than a black box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Actually, they can work great for the band that runs sound from stage. A properly set up, high quality FBS can be a great tool in the arsenal. As KF650SB1000 states above, proper gain structure is probably much more effective with a dedicated sound guy out front but proper gain structure and an FBS can save a few of those embarrassing moments when running sound from stage or with an inexperienced sound guy up front. Make sure you get a high quality unit or it may take way too large a cut out of the sound and hurt more then it helps. I wouldn't rely on a FBS to be your main feedback tool tool but they certainly can be very useful in the right hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 They are quite difficult to use properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Rezrover Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 What about the AFS in the Driverack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mutha Goose Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 I've ALWAYS found it easier to fix feedback issues manually. As stated, proper gain structure coupled with the correct levels for the situation are key. A 31 band eq and a trained ear is the best feedback eliminator on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Don Boomer could explain alot about the model he dealt with in a previous job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 I actually have five channels of Sabine 1020/2020+ 's for monitors and might add a DBX AFS224 I have to my mains for when I run the mains behind the band. It's quite important to set up the fixed filters before you start playing - preferably before the doors open. As an alternative to the AFS224 I might replace the DBX 223 crossover I use with a Driverack PA I have which supposedly has AFS built-in. I don't think I'll give up my Rane MQ302 EQ though - it looks like a real PITA to use the EQ in the Driverack PA . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members blkmonday Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 i run sound from the stage and use an older peavey feedback ferret on my monitors. works great for me. simple to use. i wouldnt use it on my mains..but for my floor wedges its fine. i grabbed one off ebay for like 50 bucks awhile ago just to try...2 years later its still in my monitor rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 it looks like a real PITA to use the EQ in the Driverack PA . It is. I use a DR 260 and have learned my way around the AFS. I still believe it is a decent tool if properly setup and used. Nothing is better then a good 31 band EQ and proper gain structure with an experienced guy running sound out front, but that might not always be possible. When running from stage, a high quality AFS/FBS can be worth it's weight in gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members sailorman Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 I run sound from the stage for our (primarily) bar band. We've never had feedback from the mains, but the monitors and especially spot monitor caused issues. So we got a dbx AFS224; zero feedback since, including from the spot (YOU try to teach her not to turn it up..! ). I readily admit that I don't have the ear to selectively notch out a frequency with a 31 band EQ, nor could I do so while attempting to play guitar. So for us at least, this unit has been very effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Feedback killers might give you up to another 9 db in volume. My band is running a DriveRack PX on the monitors and a DriveRack PA on the mains. Both anti-feedbacks are setup before the gig. I won't say that I love the units for this purpose, but they do what they're designed to do. As a result the band has gotten a little louder and sometimes I will hear feedback before a new live filter kicks in. (Faster than I could reach the board.) I've taken to telling my bandmates that there isn't any room for more volume. Stage volume control is more important than the feedback killers. (Though a well setup PA system will feedback less than a poorly setup system.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 think about this... and then go try it... Plug a keyboard into the system with a Feedback controller in where is would sit (between the mixer and amps)... now hold a note for a second or two... that little black box will think its feedback and start working its "magic" to remove that frequency. And now your keyboards tone has changed and doesn't sound right any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Feedback killers might give you up to another 9 db in volume. My band is running a DriveRack PX on the monitors and a DriveRack PA on the mains. Both anti-feedbacks are setup before the gig. I won't say that I love the units for this purpose, but they do what they're designed to do. As a result the band has gotten a little louder and sometimes I will hear feedback before a new live filter kicks in. (Faster than I could reach the board.) I've taken to telling my bandmates that there isn't any room for more volume. Stage volume control is more important than the feedback killers. (Though a well setup PA system will feedback less than a poorly setup system.) If it gives you 9dB of additional GBF, something is very wrong with your basis system set-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Axisplayer Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 I used to run three DRPA units in my system. Two were for the monitors and I engaged the feedback filter. Generally I hated it because of issues with misidentification of feedback. A guitar intentionally feeding back for effect would kill the monitor levels (not altogether bad) and so did some keyboard events. What I did like it for was the quick random stupidity events. If a singer lowered his mic so that it pointed to the monitors while not singing, it would quickly engage hold for a little bit, and then turn off. Anything more than that became iffy in my judgement. I sold them after a year of trying to make effective use of them. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 think about this... and then go try it... Plug a keyboard into the system with a Feedback controller in where is would sit (between the mixer and amps)... now hold a note for a second or two... that little black box will think its feedback and start working its "magic" to remove that frequency. And now your keyboards tone has changed and doesn't sound right any more. Really? An FBS will mistake a keyboard for feedback? I've never heard of that (or experienced it). That would definitely not be a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 I use use a Sabine FBX2400 in our compact PA rig. One channel for monitors (we just run a single monitor mix), one channel for the mains. Good speaker placement and control of stage volume will prevent feedback when you sound check, but the FBX is nice to have in reserve for those unexpected situations. For example, a singer straying out of their normal zone and too close to a speaker. Or a venue where the acoustics change and get more reflective when the crowd starts to thin out, later in the evening. The active "just in case" filters in the FBX are great for that kind of situation. Especially for bands like ours, where we mix from the stage and can't quickly grab a fader in the middle of playing a tune. I haven't had any problems with false triggering on sustained notes. It might be because the groups I play in are all "acoustic" bands, but we do use sustaining instruments sometimes like fiddles and Scottish border pipes. If anything was going to trigger a false feedback alarm with an automatic processor, I would think the pipes would do it. Those things already sound like feedback in the upper register! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members KF650SB1000 Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Really? An FBS will mistake a keyboard for feedback? I've never heard of that (or experienced it). That would definitely not be a good thing. Well it is recognizing the single tone being held for an extended period of time; thus thinking it is Feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Well it is recognizing the single tone being held for an extended period of time; thus thinking it is Feedback. I'm not arguing. I just assumed they were a little smarter then that. Feedback has different properties then a held note. I assumed the suppressors could tell the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Vito Corleone Posted August 16, 2011 Members Share Posted August 16, 2011 Any extended note that could be mistaken for feedback might be something I'd want suppressed regardless of the source.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 Somebody posting has almost zero idea what they are talking about. First ... gain structure has ZERO to do with feedback, none, nada! Good feedback eliminators do not remove keyboard notes ... unless the note is a single sine wave. A complex wave is ignored. Most people that have a bad experience with them re not using them correctly or have crappy quality units (in which case it's the crappy quality that is the issue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members 6Imzadi Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well, I had used my DRPA trying the AFS and it suppressed the drum brown note to the extent that I got no brown note. I don't know how complex that could be since it came from a drummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JohnnyGraphic Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 This is just my experience. I had the dbx AFS 224. I would try to set the first 12 filters and leave the next 12 for live use. Occasionally, there would be feedback and the unit would not pick it up. I would experiment and try to get it to notch it out. It would be an anguishing time period and it just wouldn't find it. Not sure of exactly why it didn't do anything about the feedback though. I would try to get the basics down first. If you have quality mics, speakers etc, then you are THAT much better off to avoiding it in the first place. A magic box rarely does as advertised. Spend some time with a mic, a speaker and your EQ and learn how to notch out the problematic frequencies first. That part is free. If you have cash burning a hole in your pocket, upgrade to higher quality items. Peavey used to have these cool EQ's that had a light over an offending frequency. Not sure if they're still out there or not. That could be an alternative and also help train your ears. That said, I would probably go the Sabine route as I understand that their program is the best around. It IS super nice to have just in case you do have feedback issues when you are performing side of stage. Whatever route you choose, I hope it works out for you. I know how troubling it is and it can even damage your hearing. Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members jwlussow Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 Somebody posting has almost zero idea what they are talking about.First ... gain structure has ZERO to do with feedback, none, nada!Good feedback eliminators do not remove keyboard notes ... unless the note is a single sine wave. A complex wave is ignored. Most people that have a bad experience with them re not using them correctly or have crappy quality units (in which case it's the crappy quality that is the issue). I thought it sounded weird that someone would claim a feedback suppressor would detect keyboard or guitar and eliminate those notes. I am not a keyboard band so I couldn't dispute the claim. We use our DR260's AFS at every gig. I haven't heard feedback in years so either it is working great or we are just careful about mic/speaker placement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members tlbonehead Posted August 17, 2011 Members Share Posted August 17, 2011 Really? An FBS will mistake a keyboard for feedback? I've never heard of that (or experienced it). That would definitely not be a good thing.I've heard them mess up intended guitar feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.