Jump to content

Headphones: High-end Audio Technica or low-end Grado Labs?


144dB

Recommended Posts

  • Members

Hey all,

 

I've been using Audio Technica ATH-M40fs headphones for 15+ years, and for ~70 bucks, they were hard to beat. They have a balanced sound that I didn't find in competitors, and a pretty good bottom end. The closed cell foam coating flakes off after a few years (leaving black specks on your clothes), but that's the worst I can say about them.

 

My birthday is coming up and my wife is asking for ideas, and I thought perhaps it's time to upgrade. For the ~$300 budget I have, I could get a pair of top flight Audio Technicas (ATH-R70x or ATH-M70x), or a pair of low-end Grados (SR325e). It would be a real stretch to get up to a Grado RS2e or PS500e ($500 to $600).

 

Any thoughts?

 

Grados tend to be open back, and since I'm not a singer, drummer, or acoustic guitar player, that's not a problem. I almost always use headphones except for final mixing or critical listening, and my main instrument is keyboards. I also use headphones for audio editing, etc.

 

Initially I thought I would have to buy them sight unseen, but I actually found a place locally that has Grados. Guitar Center might have the high-end A/Ts.

 

Any insight is appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I bought the ATH-M40f set about 10 years ago - actually three sets, one for me, one for each kid. Yes, the price was great and I still listen to them a lot - they are a living room set for when anyone wants to listen but it's not a good time to make noise in the house. They have a really long cord, so you can sit/lie anywhere in the room and they will reach the source.

 

I'd keep them as a reference set in any event. They are very non-fatiguing and have a big, soft sort of sound, a pillowy feel, great for symphonies and movie music. You can replace the covers when they start to flake - I think I'm on my third set of covers.

 

To own something higher end - sure, why not? In your shoes I would try to identify what the ATHs are not doing all that well and get something that is strong where they are weak. Like a deeper, well-defined bass was what I was looking for when I bought, for studio use, a pair of Sony MDR-7509s. I just found a used set on eBay for something like $150. The covers were already flakey on them when they arrived - but for that price, for that quality sound, I'm in love.

 

So I have my "atmospheric" set of phones, and my super-clear, extended range, tight, detailed set of phones. I doubt I'll ever need to upgrade again at this point.

 

Best of luck -

 

nat

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I tend to have fairly cheap taste in headphones... But I use them only when tracking, and for final panning adjustments when mixing. So isolation is more important than pristine hi-fi quality to me.

I use Sennheiser 202's. I got 5 pair from B&H Photo 12 years ago for 70 bucks or so. They all still work great.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

To own something higher end - sure, why not? In your shoes I would try to identify what the ATHs are not doing all that well and get something that is strong where they are weak.

 

That's a great question and a great approach. In my shoes, it's hard to tell what I'm missing, because it's very rare that I get to hear an uncompromised listening environment. It's similar to studio monitors. You don't know what you're missing until you hear real studio monitors, and then it's an aha moment.

 

I'll give it some thought though. I'll also pull together a reference CD and try and find a place that has the phones in question. Maybe I'll bring my ATH-M40s along for an A/B comparison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I primarily used the ATH-M40 prior to joining Gibson. When I did, Phil O'Keefe - who's a big fan of the KRK KNS-8400 headphones - said to take advantage of the employee discount and get a pair. I did, and they're all I use now. Here are the pros and cons:

 

Pros:

 

Lightweight but not flimsy. I can wear them for hours, and they add nothing to my carry-on when on the road..

Voiced like studio monitors so I get better results when I need to mix on headphones.

There's a volume control in the cable. This is INCREDIBLY useful when doing vocal overdubs and I'm not near any interface volume controls.

Detachable cord

Accurate bass (which means consumers won't buy them, haha)

Memory foam earpads

 

Cons:

 

You have to burn them in, otherwise the upper mids and bass aren't where they should be.

They sound a little brighter than other headphones, although nowhere near (for example) the Ultrasones. Sort of like a less airy version of the high-end AKGs.

 

I thought this review online, from someone who's isn't part of Gibson Brands, nails it pretty well:

 

I recently purchased a pair of these KRK KNS 8400's, and I have to say they are fantastic. I did a review and comparison with the M50's here: http://www.headphone.com/headphones/krk-systems-kns-8400.php

After 50+ hours of burn-in using various methods outlined here at head-fi, I have to say these cans are exactly what I need, but I was worried at first. The burn-in changed the edgy treble to sharp & pleasant with excellent detail; bass went from decent to fantastic - (I'm actually hearing bass that I didn't know was there in some songs!); mids from too forward to right where they should be, with feeling and force. The sound stage opened slightly which is still decent for a closed can.

Yes you can use these for studio mixing, setting levels, and removing unwanted noises as they can be analytical if you like. The cool thing about them is that you can still listen to your favorite music and enjoy it without tearing it apart because of a bad mix. I really like the fact that these sound nearly identical to the studio monitors that I listen to everything on - it makes them an asset in a small home studio when you need to be quiet.

The isolation is decent for tracking, as always though you have to be mindful of your mic placement, and levels. They actually have some ventilation(?) holes at the top that I have covered for tracking that make them very quiet - I'm not sure what these holes are for specifically - opening sound stage, or for heat. [Note from Craig: bass porting]

Awesome cans!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

I've been using Audio Technica ATH-M40fs headphones for 15+ years, and for ~70 bucks, they were hard to beat. They have a balanced sound that I didn't find in competitors, and a pretty good bottom end. The closed cell foam coating flakes off after a few years (leaving black specks on your clothes), but that's the worst I can say about them.

 

My birthday is coming up and my wife is asking for ideas, and I thought perhaps it's time to upgrade. For the ~$300 budget I have, I could get a pair of top flight Audio Technicas (ATH-R70x or ATH-M70x), or a pair of low-end Grados (SR325e). It would be a real stretch to get up to a Grado RS2e or PS500e ($500 to $600).

 

Any thoughts?

 

Grados tend to be open back, and since I'm not a singer, drummer, or acoustic guitar player, that's not a problem. I almost always use headphones except for final mixing or critical listening, and my main instrument is keyboards. I also use headphones for audio editing, etc.

 

Initially I thought I would have to buy them sight unseen, but I actually found a place locally that has Grados. Guitar Center might have the high-end A/Ts.

 

Any insight is appreciated.

 

In my opinion headphones are a lot like monitor speakers - the basics have to be there, but beyond that, it's largely a matter of preference. That's one of the reasons why I have so many different brands / models of headphones around here - I can usually offer someone something else if they don't like the cans I put out for them.

 

You're lucky that there's a Grado dealer nearby. Definitely go down and give some a try. You may really like them - I do. Their main drawbacks are their open back design (terrible for tracking, but apparently that's a non-issue for you) which means they bleed a lot... if you're trying not to disturb your wife while playing, they're not going to be good for that. They also get knocked for their comfort level quite a bit. Not everyone likes wearing them, and they can get fatiguing in terms of comfort over long listening sessions.

 

Definitely try a pair of KRK KNS-8400's. I have a set sitting right next to me at the desk far more often than not. They're probably my favorite all-around use headphones. They're sealed, so they're fine for tracking use, and they're detailed enough to give my Grado SR125i's a solid run for their money, and they're much more comfortable to wear for longer periods of time. They're also about half your budget, so you won't break that either. You can probably find them at your local Guitar Center. If not, Sweetwater carries them too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

You have to burn them in, otherwise the upper mids and bass aren't where they should be.

 

Hi Craig. If I wanted to accelerate burn-in, could I just plug them into a stereo and let them play overnight? If ~50 hours is the target, I could get there in a week.

 

Thanks for the recommendation (and thanks to Phil as well).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I had a decent set of Audio Technica headphones that I bought from Radioshack for around $100 a couple of years ago, and I loved them. Then they fell apart. So, I went to Radioshack and couldn't find any comparable noise cancelling ATs. Went to Best Buy and they had Bose and Beats. Yikes. While Bose makes great headphones, they're not cheap. I don't consider myself an audiophile, but I do love ripping WAV files from my CDs which are a lot bigger than FLAC and MP3 files. I own vinyl, but play it on a cheap turntable I got in 2010. While I have produced my own music and albums for over a decade, I don't consider myself a great producer. Plus, while I live comfortably, I'm not wealthy by any means. So, when I see some Sony headphones for about $140, I check them out. That was a year and a half ago in late 2015, and I still own them.

 

YMMV, but check out different brands and read what components and features they offer versus your Audio Technicas.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Phones are phones to me. I have the Sony V6 type and they do fine. This got my attention though:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=120&cp_id=12009&cs_id=1082302&p_id=16050&seq=1&format=2

 

I used to have Marantz Electrostatics and I recall them being quick and very smooth. If these are anything like that and given the 50 year gap in tech, should be worth a look.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

I have all kinds. Some are so old I had to make new ear pads for them.

 

I have a set of JVC I've owned for about 30 years. They've lost a little top end over the years so I don't try to use them for any critical mixing tweaks.

I bought a set of AKG K240 MKII and an inexpensive set, AKG K72. To be honest, I'm not able to hear that much difference between them.

I truly hate using headphones. Guess it stems back to my apartment dwelling days when I had young kids and tried to mix at low volumes.

 

Since then I'll only use them for tracking vocals. I in fact tried to do a couple of mixes recently using headphones only and they simply didn't have the details and clarity I normally have. The instruments with middle frequencies wound up masking each other a bit. The headphones must have some hyped highs and lows.

 

I did use a special Headphone plugin which is supposed to emulate the cross feed and time delay actual speakers produce. Not sure how well they worked because my mixes still wound up sounding a bit two dimensional.

 

I did much better with then frequency response when I used this Fletchy-Muncher plugin in my mains buss. http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?plugin=Fletchy-Muncher&id=2239 The idea being is it simulates loud volumes playback of the spectrum according to the Fletcher-Munson curve.

You boost it up when mixing then either bypass it or adjust it back to flat response. This helps overcome the tonal chances absent when using headphones and the outer ear isn't being used.

 

The other item I found useful is this tool. http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=1216

I can use it along with a Phase scope to adjust my mid and side responses, something that's nearly impossible to do properly using headphones only because of the imaging issues headphones skew to the center of your skull.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
So' date=' when I see some Sony headphones for about $140, I check them out. That was a year and a half ago in late 2015, and I still own them.[/quote']

 

I used Sony headphones for quite some time, where I think they excel is in the midrange. I've recommended the closed-back models to some DJs because they're already getting so much bass just from the acoustics around them they need the midrange to hear what they're doing.

 

As Phil said, much is a matter of taste. I used to test mixes over multiple speakers back in the day, now I test them out over multiple headphones. My thumbnails...

  • If Beats don't show you what's in the bass, nothing will.
  • Ultrasones are really bright. Good for classical, which doesn't hype the highs.
  • The high-end AKGs have a lovely, transparent high end but the bass and lower mids seem a bit shy.
  • Audio-Technica has an overall well-balanced response, although the highs lack "air."
  • KRK's sound the most like monitor speakers, so mixes translate well if I have to mix while traveling (and the volume control / balanced response is why I use them for overdubs).

There are even some good earbuds out there. Surprisingly, my favorites are the Monster Turbos, but they're not made any more. They were expensive, however the transient response was exceptional and sufficiently well-balanced you could actually mix on them. I had to mix a bunch of stuff in a hotel room in France and figured I'd do a "real" mix when I got back home...but the mixes translated extraordinarily well, and I had to do only a few minor touch-ups. Go figure.

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hey all,

 

I told my wife I wanted the KRKs. I should have them in a couple of weeks. I'm goingt to leave them plugged into an FM receiver around the clock to burn them in. I should have feedback to give by mid March.

 

Thanks again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

I told my wife I wanted the KRKs. I should have them in a couple of weeks. I'm goingt to leave them plugged into an FM receiver around the clock to burn them in. I should have feedback to give by mid March.

 

Thanks again.

 

If you leave them plugged in around the clock like that it should only take two or three days for them to break in... but as Craig said, breaking them in before making any decisions about them or trying to use them for critical work is essential.

 

Hope you enjoy them - please do let us know what you think after you've had a chance to live with them for a bit. :wave:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • Members

Hey all,

 

My wonderful wife allowed me to open my new KRKs a week early, so that I could burn them in and be ready to go on day one. I have them connected to an FM receiver on a station that plays a broad range of material, and I'm going to let them play for a week straight.

 

I did try them on and I tried them in the studio for a few minutes. In terms of comfort, they seem fantastic. I'll know more after a long session, but they are very light, and in contrast to my AT's, the narrow memory foam pads go completely around the helix of the outer ear. My ATH-M40's rest on the helix, the lobule, and the outer ear in general, which leads to fatigue. After an hour or two, you have to take them off and massage your ears. I don't see that happening with the KRK's, and that's a huge bonus already.

 

Though they aren't burned in yet, I did pull up a few problematic mixes, and I could detect more easily the frequencies that I'm struggling with. They reveal mud in the 200-500 Hz range more than my AT's do. If I had these cans while mixing my last project, I would have made a few different EQ decisions that would have made a much better mix.

 

What better endorsement can you say about a piece of gear?

 

I'll let you know how they fare once they are burned in. So far, I'm impressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Once you get them burned in, give yourself a day or two to just enjoy listening to a variety of material on them. I think that would be beneficial before starting to use them to mix with.

 

I'm glad you're liking the comfort. The light weight helps a lot there, as does the well-designed pads. I'm on my second set of those pads - I wore the first ones out because I use them so much. :)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Hey all,

 

My wonderful wife allowed me to open my new KRKs a week early, so that I could burn them in and be ready to go on day one. I have them connected to an FM receiver on a station that plays a broad range of material, and I'm going to let them play for a week straight.

 

I did try them on and I tried them in the studio for a few minutes. In terms of comfort, they seem fantastic. I'll know more after a long session, but they are very light, and in contrast to my AT's, the narrow memory foam pads go completely around the helix of the outer ear. My ATH-M40's rest on the helix, the lobule, and the outer ear in general, which leads to fatigue. After an hour or two, you have to take them off and massage your ears. I don't see that happening with the KRK's, and that's a huge bonus already.

 

Though they aren't burned in yet, I did pull up a few problematic mixes, and I could detect more easily the frequencies that I'm struggling with. They reveal mud in the 200-500 Hz range more than my AT's do. If I had these cans while mixing my last project, I would have made a few different EQ decisions that would have made a much better mix.

 

What better endorsement can you say about a piece of gear?

 

I'll let you know how they fare once they are burned in. So far, I'm impressed.

 

 

Glad to hear it. I always keep coming back to the 8400s. In fact I got a second pair so that one is by the computer, and the other by the mic where I do overdubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It's funny... I used to knock AKG headphones because I thought they had unnatural lower mids (i.e. a bump in their response). Based on what I know now, they might have been closer to the truth than my AT's. If my mixes suffer from one common theme, it's a build up of energy in the 200-600 Hz range. I think these KRKs will help me address that.

 

I try to mix on nearfields as much as possible, but with my living situation, the reality is I use cans a lot more than speakers. I use speakers to help get the bottom end right, to judge the amount of reverb, and to gauge panning. Headphones work better for hearing glitches and fine details.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Hey all,

 

...just a quick note to report back and to say that I love my new KRK KNS 8400's... Special thanks to Phil and Craig for recommending them, as I would have never given KRK a look without the recommendation. I've always been familiar with the company, but I was never much interested in their NFMs, and I would have completely missed these headphones.

 

They are light, comfortable, well-constructed, and best of all, they have helped me judge the critical 250-400 Hz range that has plagued so many of my recordings and mixes. They also give me a more accurate high-end (e.g. 5 KHz and above). In addition to the great sound, I don't get neck aches like I did with my A/Ts, and I've worn them for 2-3 hours non-stop without issue. They have been a fabulous buy and I wholeheartedly recommend them.

 

I still mix and master with multiple references, as every speaker has a vulnerability. These cans don't highlight resonances very well in the 1-2 Khz range, but my Event NFMs easily compensate. I always do my panning and reverb/delay with NFMs anyway, so if I miss something with the KRKs, I'll catch it on the speakers.

 

I'm stunned how bad some synth sounds are, and I never knew it. No wonder certain mixes of mine fell short. There were nasty 300-800 Hz resonances that my old headphones weren't catching, and I couldn't hear it on my NFMs either.

 

I burned them in non-stop for a week by plugging them into an iPod with a very diverse playlist, and I'm still running them 24 hours a day. I'll continue to do so for a week or so.

 

Thanks again for the recommendation!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Anybody try the new Blue Powered Headphones yet? I heard about them on NPR' date=' so I guess they are released to the market. I haven't seen any reviews yet.... (Not that I'm shopping or anything)[/quote']

 

 

Blue makes several different headphone models now. I've reviewed the original ones - the Blue Mofi - which have an onboard amplifier.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/blue-mo-fi-headphones

 

I've also reviewed the Blue Lola, which features a similar design, but is passive.

 

http://www.harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/blue-lola-headphones

 

They're very nice headphones. Their main drawback is the weight... but it's well-distributed and the innovative headband helps to keep it from being too annoying.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...