Members I stink at bass Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 The other day I went to 12 spin-a-thon on spin bikes. It was held in a conference room of a hotel. It was probably 50x50 with a 16 foot ceiling. Anyway, they had a Mackie SRM 450 over an 1801 sub in each corner, then a set in the center of each wall for a total of (8) sets. The sound was fricken AWESOME! It seemed that where ever you were in the room, the sound was the same. I'm not sure about the subs, but the mains were only only running in like the 10 o'clock position, so they were barely working. Has anyone else tried this before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members BillESC Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 Seems to me the comb filtering would have been terrible, resulting in nothing but mud in the middle of the room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 I find the worry of comb filtering to be overrated by a factor of 17.93743. I do things all the time that I'm not supposed to do; Mixing sub types, Arraying EAW LA325's, etc. I rarely get criticism for sound. bottom line is if it sounds good it sounds good. now that being said, I was just at Circus nightclub here in L.A. and they did a similar thing- small 10" speakers 2' above head, every 4 feet.... and it sounded HORRIFIC. combfiltering, bass mistimed, all kinds of {censored}ty stuff. and they put their sub stacks exactly 7' apart... hehehe So YMMV... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Reson8tor Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 I've never done a full surround like that, but I've run PA for contra dances which are typically held in rooms that are very long compared to the width (to allow for the dance lines). The dance caller on a wireless headset has to be heard at each end of the line, so I've put speakers with delays at the back corners of the room, as well as having the main FOH speakers at the band's end of the room. Works fine. There may technically be some comb-filtering here and there, but that's far less important than just getting the coverage needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Marko Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 Maybe having them all at a lowish volume helped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted October 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 Seems to me the comb filtering would have been terrible, resulting in nothing but mud in the middle of the room.That's normally what you would think, but it wasn't at all. They had each speaker set to the perfect level. I'm sure that it took the sound tech a while to set it up. It's an unusual set-up, but DAMN it sounded good. Like you all have said, it's all in the setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 Set-up is always going to be a set of tradeoffs. The better the trade-offs, the better the results. The key to better performance is to understanding the ranking of the set-up otptions to their impact on performance in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 the mains were only only running in like the 10 o'clock position That may seem that way intuitively, but you cannot tell how hard they are working from the knob position without knowing how hard they are being driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted October 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 That may seem that way intuitively, but you cannot tell how hard they are working from the knob position without knowing how hard they are being driven. True that! but considering that they only had an ipod and a wireless headset mic plugged into a 4 channel mixer, I am thinking not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members WynnD Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 I do things all the time that I'm not supposed to do; Mixing sub types, Arraying EAW LA325's, etc. I rarely get criticism for sound. bottom line is if it sounds good it sounds good. I'm just like that. Got a mish-mash of equipment and a big gig? Use it all and find a way to make it work. (Not that I do concert level stuff.) But while others are recommending a minimum of 2000+ watts for 400 people indoors, I do 400 people outdoors with half of that. Loud is over-rated. I've done general PA work for 5000 people in an open flat field with 1000 watts and only two speakers. (bi-amped and running close to maximum capablilty. Nothing broke and I still use that set up for midsized clubs in Denver.) It helps to know your equipment's capabilities and stay within them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 True that! but considering that they only had an ipod and a wireless headset mic plugged into a 4 channel mixer, I am thinking not. Doesn't mean a thing. As Don said, there's no way to tell how hard you are driving them based on knob position and the equipment listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 To put this in the kindest way possible ... from reading many of your posts you haven't yet understood much of how sound systems work and you continue to post in ignorance. So let me see if I can help you along. The part of this that you are not understanding is that the mixer is driving the speakers. It doesn't matter much what is plugged into the mixer, it only matters the voltage that is coming out of the mixer. To illustrate, let's say this mixer is putting out 1 volt and the powered speaker is at position "x" ... you'll get a certain loudness level level. Now if that mixer gets readjusted so that it is putting out 2 volts, you could turn down to 1/2 of "x" on the speaker and be in exactly the same place ... the level would still be the same. Likewise if you turned the output of the mixer down to 1/2 of a volt you would have to turn up the speaker to 2x "X" to be in the same place. The point of all of this is just to point out that knob positions don't really mean much by themselves. Those speakers could be at 7 'o'clock, 10 o'clock or 5'oclock and the speaker could be putting out the same exact power at any of them. What you can't tell is whether that output represents 10% or 99% of what the speaker is capable of. Hope that helps you understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members The Chinese Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 no need to be mean guys.... he's just relaying his experience tha tit sounded good... and think about it. in a work out room, it's not goign to all that loud- we all know the SRM is an OK speaker that puts out a good amount of sound. just a gentle reminder that not everyone up here is a total Pro. especially me. 'cuz I ain't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheDoctorMo Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 So, what you are saying is, "Gain is gain?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 No one is trying to be mean and I am not making any reference to his opinion. His opinion is perfectly valid and if he liked the sound then he did. My point was trying to sort out the technology and correct it. No "putdown" implied, but facts is facts and I think that an effort to get them straight is in order on a tech based board like this. How else are you gonna learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted October 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 no need to be mean guys.... he's just relaying his experience tha tit sounded good... and think about it. in a work out room, it's not goign to all that loud- we all know the SRM is an OK speaker that puts out a good amount of sound. just a gentle reminder that not everyone up here is a total Pro. especially me. 'cuz I ain't. Thanks for your input, I appreciate when someone actually understands the fact that not everyone is a professional sound engineer, and often couldn't care less about what theoretically should be done. We are just relaying OUR personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 So, what you are saying is, "Gain is gain?" No ... That's exactly what I'm trying to correct. Gain does not equal loudness. In this case the "gain" is different in all three of my examples.. The "gain" does follow the knob positions, but the result of those three is all the same in terms of level. My point in all of this was to say that based on the info presented that you cold not make a conclusion that the speakers were "barely working" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 It seems that when there are butt-hurt feelings, it's generally by folks who think they understand but in reality haven't a clue BUT THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. These folks often don't want to be inconvenienvced with how things work or what things really mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted October 7, 2011 Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 and often couldn't care less about what theoretically should be done. We are just relaying OUR personal experience. So again in a manner that is trying to be constructive and helpful ... In your case you have made a number of posts about buying equipment and what goes with what. If you are not interested in learning then that's fine and I'll go back to the point I made to you on another of your posts is that I hope you have a big budget. If you don't understand what it is that you are buying and what part it plays in what you are trying to accomplish ... then you will need to be very lucky or more likely you will be wasting a good part of your budget learning the hard way (which we have all had a part in) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members I stink at bass Posted October 7, 2011 Author Members Share Posted October 7, 2011 So again in a manner that is trying to be constructive and helpful ...In your case you have made a number of posts about buying equipment and what goes with what. If you are not interested in learning then that's fine and I'll go back to the point I made to you on another of your posts is that I hope you have a big budget. If you don't understand what it is that you are buying and what part it plays in what you are trying to accomplish ... then you will need to be very lucky or more likely you will be wasting a good part of your budget learning the hard way (which we have all had a part in)I can understand that. I appreciate that explanation. We are all now happy with the setup that we have now. However, I do like to look at what other people are using and how they are using it. So yes, I am learning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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