Members Musicman717 Posted November 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Lemme guess... when you turn the input gain down... it's not loud enough? just one the soft vocal songs, when they get louder then it starts going into the red. but i think it's like aged said , that i have a gain structure problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 OK. For the sake of making sure i was speaking in facts, i took out my Behringer SX3242FX - identical to yours except it has more channels. I plugged in a beta 58 vocal microphone with a standard XLR mic cable, and adjusted the input trim to about 7 oclock (as low as it would go). At this level, i screamed into the mic, and was unable to get the channel into the yellow - let alone the red. I can imagine that someone with a louder scream might get the yellow but i find it very hard to believe that a vocallist is running this into the red just singing. When i adjusted it to about 10 o clock, by screaming, i was able to get the channel into the red. I'm not sure how yours can be running into the red all the time on normal vocals. While there may be an issue with your mics being far hotter than the beta 58 (relatively unlikely i would assume) i dont understand how this issue can be causing such an issue. You are using XLR to XLR cables, i assume? yes i am useing xlr to xlr. as far as the mics go. I cant imagine a samson mic being hotter than a shure 58 mic. but as i said , aged is pretty much right i think i have a gain structure problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 Once you define what the problem really is, THEN you can work on a viable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 I cant imagine a samson mic being hotter than a shure 58 micAn SM58 is actually fairly low output compared to many newer designs which often use hotter neodymium magnets - the SM58 was introduced in 1966 and it's design dates back to at least 1959. It wouldn't surprise me at all that a Samson is hotter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 An SM58 is actually fairly low output compared to many newer designs which often use hotter neodymium magnets - the SM58 was introduced in 1966 and it's design dates back to at least 1959. It wouldn't surprise me at all that a Samson is hotter. so what you are saying is that along with the gain structure that i havent been doing my mics may be too hot and it might be a factor as well? and too how do you tell the difference in how hot the mic is without trying it out, is there a certain thing within the specs that you have to look for or something.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 I was using a beta 58 which is slightly hotter than an sm58. But not by much. It is common enough with some bands to need to adjust the gain (trim) during the gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members RoadRanger Posted November 1, 2011 Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 so what you are saying is that along with the gain structure that i havent been doing my mics may be too hot and it might be a factor as well? and too how do you tell the difference in how hot the mic is without trying it out, is there a certain thing within the specs that you have to look for or something.?I was only saying what I was saying . Less hot mics won't help as you'd just up the trim and be back where you started . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 1, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 1, 2011 I was only saying what I was saying . Less hot mics won't help as you'd just up the trim and be back where you started . oh ok. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 2, 2011 Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 Good God, it's not the mics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 Good God, it's not the mics. well, the way he was talking about the mics , I just took it that it might be a factor as well as a gain structureing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 hey , one quick question, I have been watching video's on gain structure, and on one video he used a board with a solo switch on it , then he turns around and uses a board with a PFL on it. now , my question is this. what if you have both options on the board . with my board you can either use the solo or the PFL switch, which one do i Actually use in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Art Flood Posted November 2, 2011 Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 hey , one quick question, I have been watching video's on gain structure, and on one video he used a board with a solo switch on it , then he turns around and uses a board with a PFL on it. now , my question is this. what if you have both options on the board . with my board you can either use the solo or the PFL switch, which one do i Actually use in this case? If you are trying to adjust the input trim use the PFL (so the fader position does not affect the signal) - this should allow you to see the channel signal level being displayed on your output meters (or leds). I am only guessing as I don't have your board, but I'd assume the 'solo' would be post fader (meaning that the position of the fader would affect the signal). Handy if you want to hear the lead vocal only, or perhaps all the vocals, to try and balance them using headphones. Good luck with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heath_eld Posted November 2, 2011 Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 I am pretty sure solo affects the foh mix on that board whereas pfl affects only the monitor (headphones). I maintain that you're making this more complicated than it needs to be. If your board is clipping on vocals with the trim at 7.00 which is what you said, you're doing something wrong or something is playing up. Play around with the pfl and trim (gain) knob far away from a gig and see what you can discover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 ok guys ' I worked a little bit with my mixer this morning and here is a play by play of what i did. first i turned my gain down and then my master fader i turned all the way down, then put my channel fader at unity or 0 then began to talk throught the mic and with that started turning the gain up little by little until it clipped then i backed my gain back just a little bit till it stopped clipping . i started singing pretty loud into the mic and the clip light on the channel started to flicker just a bit. and then i sung softly and it didnt clip at all. then turned my master fader up. is that what i needed to do or is there more to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted November 2, 2011 Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 set it so it never clips; actually keep it in the green 100% for now, dont even hit any yellow lights. aim for "0" when pfl'ing. zero is surprisingly low on the led scale, pretend for now that zero is the max and get used to that concept. you can go higher than this but there is no point - zero is your new level to achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 2, 2011 set it so it never clips; actually keep it in the green 100% for now, dont even hit any yellow lights.aim for "0" when pfl'ing. zero is surprisingly low on the led scale, pretend for now that zero is the max and get used to that concept.you can go higher than this but there is no point - zero is your new level to achieve. ok, now, once i do that, and get my structure set up to where i need it on the board , and if i need to go up anywhere else in the chain( Eq, Power amps) can i do that?. My eq's run anywhere from 12 o clock to 3 o clock, and the power amps are run the same as the eq's.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 Where you are at now, set the master fader to "0"dB, set the channel fader to 0dB, set your amps all the way up, be sure the limiter is engaged if switchable, now turn the input gain up slowly while using the vocal mic and when you get to the point that it is loud enough, you should not be clipping the input. This is why this old school method can be useful, it's kind of a no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 Where you are at now, set the master fader to "0"dB, set the channel fader to 0dB, set your amps all the way up, be sure the limiter is engaged if switchable, now turn the input gain up slowly while using the vocal mic and when you get to the point that it is loud enough, you should not be clipping the input. This is why this old school method can be useful, it's kind of a no-brainer. ok, thanks it sounds easy enough to do.at times i get to a show long before the band does so i dont have anyone to check the mics out for me, as long as there is no feedback through the foh can i do this myself at the board if that ever arises. without the band members? just vocal mics not the instrument mics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 3, 2011 Members Share Posted November 3, 2011 Do it with everything to get your basic gain structure set up. There will be no more liklihood of feedback than with any other way, gain is gain no matter where it comes in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2011 hey another question that i wanted to ask, When you say headroom, ( this is something that i have never understood.) are you talking about headroom to turn up in needed or headroom to turn down if needed? that part puzzles me so i thought i would ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted November 4, 2011 Members Share Posted November 4, 2011 Headroom is the amount of available room for signal above where you are operating and below clipping in any stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Musicman717 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Members Share Posted November 4, 2011 Headroom is the amount of available room for signal above where you are operating and below clipping in any stage. so if igot the signal set to 0 and not going into the yellow, what kind of headroom do i have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.