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Graphic Eq Recommendations


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So I got four of the RCF ART 312-A's thanks to the recommendations I received here.

 

So I'm ready to put my new system "together" before we start using it at gigs. The system is pretty simple ... A Mackie Onyx 1620 mixer with a midiverb in the effects loop, an aux send to two of the RCF's for monitors and the main outs through a compressor to the other two RCF's for mains. We presently only run vocals through the PA.

 

To complete the set up I want to add a couple of graphic eq's ... stereo on the mains and mono on the monitors.

 

I've been looking at the compressors on line and it seems everybody makes them. I would appreciate any advice / recommendations. Someone mentioned in a previous post that having feedback indication would be a good idea - and that sure makes sense to me.

 

Thanks.

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Dbx 1231 for the monitors, (if you have more than one monitor mix). You most likely don't need 'em for the tops (FOH). Why are you running compressors at FOH?

 

 

The last singer would go from a whisper to a wild scream without even thinking about pulling off the mic ... so I ended up adding a compressor to tame things down. I don't think I'll need it with my current line up ... but I do find that it helps keep the vocals on top of the mix.

 

I'm curious as to why you don't think I'll need a Graphic on the FOH? I have never used them in the past - and not had too many issues other than feedback at some locations, (where a graphic would have helped if I had one).

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Feedback from FOH is a pretty rare occurrence. Depends how you're set up I guess. Small stage, mains slightly behind you, I can see the potential for feedback,,, or, overwhelming a too-small-room with TOO-BIG sound. If you're simply looking for FOH tweaks, but have limited budget/equipment, I'd possibly look elsewhere for improvement.

 

Vocal compressor; I'd run it in the channel-strip, not the mains.

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Is that going to the entire mix?

 

 

I connect the Midiverb between one of the sends and the return processed signal is back into two pairs of the stereo returns with a pair of "Y's" - one for the FOH the other for the monitors.

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I'm of the opinion most every system benifits from a 31 band EQ on mains and monitors. So 2x DBX 231's would be perfect. Or the peavey version. Lose the compressor on mains or at least use it as an insert, not across the the mains.

 

 

I keep hearing that I shouldn't be using the compressor from folks on this board. What is the reasoning for this?

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I keep hearing that I shouldn't be using the compressor from folks on this board. What is the reasoning for this?

 

 

Basically, you don't want to be compressing the entire output to FOH (compressed dynamic range), when the real issue is your singers' lack of mic technique. Fix that, and you probably won't even need the compressor.

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Basically, you don't want to be compressing the entire output to FOH (compressed dynamic range), when the real issue is your singers' lack of mic technique. Fix that, and you probably won't even need the compressor.

 

 

Believe me ... we tried and tried and tried ... not a chance. His other neat little tricks where to point his mic straight into the monitors or cup his hand around the mic when it started to feed back?

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Believe me ... we tried and tried and tried ... not a chance. His other neat little tricks where to point his mic straight into the monitors or cup his hand around the mic when it started to feed back?

 

:eek:

 

Fire him,,, it's cheaper than repairing your monitors. ;)

 

Better idea :idea: get him to buy his own monitor and power-amp (if passive) :cop:

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Believe me ... we tried and tried and tried ... not a chance. His other neat little tricks where to point his mic straight into the monitors or cup his hand around the mic when it started to feed back?

 

 

There are ways to deal with this but it's kind of painful and you better have good system limiting. The other way to deal with it is to get a new singer... if he's uncooperative withthis, there's bound to be other things he's uncooperative with too.

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Believe me ... we tried and tried and tried ... not a chance. His other neat little tricks where to point his mic straight into the monitors or cup his hand around the mic when it started to feed back?

 

:eek:

 

Fire him,,, it's cheaper than repairing your monitors. ;)

 

Better idea :idea: get him to buy his own monitor and power-amp (if passive) :cop: He'll learn technique pretty qwik once he's replaced a few drivers.

 

Better yet, nail a wireless mic to his forehead. That would even make him "hands free" ;)

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:eek:

Fire him,,, it's cheaper than repairing your monitors.
;)

Better idea
:idea:
get him to buy his own monitor and power-amp (if passive)
:cop:
He'll learn technique pretty qwik once he's replaced a few drivers.


Better yet, nail a wireless mic to his forehead. That would even make him "hands free"
;)

 

We did ... he's gone. We have a new singer who seems to have a clue. Fortunately, the monitors and amp were the previous singers, (I don't think they're in particularly great shape) ... the mixer along with an old Peavey amp and 15" cabs are mine. That's why I started down this road to upgrade the system - I'm retiring the old amp and cabs to the rehearsal room and working on the new set up.

 

From what I'm reading I'm beginning to think I'll get a Peavey QF 131 for the monitors and a dbx 231 for the fronts ... or I could just get three of the QF 131's?

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I only use one live monitor mix, at least currently. I'm thinking of getting the Peavey for the monitors because it has the feedback indication - and it only needs to be mono. The DBX 231 should work OK for the FOH since I don't think I'll need the feedback indication? Both units sell for around $200 each - so I'm looking at roughly $400. If I go for 3 of the Peaveys I'm looking at $600 - which isn't a big deal - but I'm "guessing" that both units will work pretty much same with similar specs other than the feedback indication?

 

This could all go out of the window if someone tells me that the feed back indication doesn't work or one of the units is better than the other?

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Rane also makes a very nice EQ; the DEQ 60L, but it's kinda spendy.

 

http://www.rane.com/deq60l.html

 

If I were you, I'd start with a single two-channel unit, and play with it for a while. Try it on both your monitors, and FOH, to see where it's most useful. If you're running only one monitor mix, then your covered for monitors, and FOH. I've got a dbx 1231, and it's a very nice unit. There are probably lots of used ones out there too. Ashly also has some very nice units.

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I use 5 of the Peavey QFX231's for monitors (or inserts) My FOH is a DBX 1231. If you shop used, you can find the Peaveys for around $200. They are a dual channel which the newer PV's are not. My comps are DBX 226xl which is a good unit. When I got started in SR, I thought that gates, comps, etc... were mandatory to achieve good sound. As I've gained more experience, I rarely use them. I have 8 channels of gating and comps available. I find myself using maybe one or two channels at the most. Experience and knowledge is your best "processing".

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I keep hearing that I shouldn't be using the compressor from folks on this board. What is the reasoning for this?

 

 

Make sure you understand the difference between a compressor (usually used to modify dynamic range for tone/artistic reasons) and a limiter (usually modifying dynamic range for protection).

 

That said, when using a compressor (actually any piece of "modifying" equipment) you are making a trade off. That is to say that the "improvement" that you might get with a compressor will likely be offset by a worsening of some other component of the sound. With a compressor you will gain control of dynamic range but will lose potential gain before feedback.

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With a compressor across the main bus, whatever signal crosses the threshold will modulate the gains ov every signal on the main bus. The result can be a pumping effect and elements of the mix ducking out and in.

 

 

That makes a lot of sense! I'm familiar with the problem were you start to hear the compressor "grabbing" the signal as it were. I think I get away with it because I only have vocals through the mixer, I don't use a ton of compression and I think I get pretty good isolation between the mics and the back line. That said I'm in the band playing ... so I'm not out front listening. I have some pretty knowledgeable friends who come to some of our shows ... I'm sure one of them would of said something by now ... all the feedback I heard was positive with the compressor in? If I did start to run instruments through the PA I could always make a sub mix of the the vocal channels.

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