Moderators daddymack Posted August 31, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2016 Post 1978 [and amended in 1998], 70 years after the author's demise. Unless it was a work for hire [damn lawyers!], in which case the term is up to 120 years [i'll link to the document if you want to read the entire thing...] Works with copyright dates prior to 1/1/78 were under the 1909 Copyright Act, which granted a 28 year right, which would be extended another 28 years. But that was amended numerous times until finally the 75 year fom initial copyright date rule was put into play by the CAo1976. So there is a whole lot of confusion now about what is really 'off copyright protection', in public domain, and then the whole 'new work provision' of the CAo1976, the SR changes [remember recorded music goes to 2067 ] ...it is very heady, and I do not profess to comprehend all of it, but I am somewhat familiar. Think of it this way...if a copyright holder filed on Pearl Harbor day, in theory, his works will be public domain on Dec. 7 2016. So now the average musician is expected to check the original copyright date or death date of every song/songwriter he intends to cover. http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ15a.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted August 31, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 31, 2016 ASCAP doesn't care how many nights the stage is dark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted August 31, 2016 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2016 . . . or whether the venue is filled to capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Mikeo Posted September 2, 2016 Members Share Posted September 2, 2016 A venue I play at regularly just got hit by an increase in ASCAP fees and has decided that music is no longer viable. Apparently, the guy doing weekly open mics will keep his gig by limiting performers to originals. I'm wondering if I can salvage my gig by playing public domain songs exclusively. Has anyone run into this problem and, more importantly, considered this solution? yes I did a couple of restaurant bar gigs with the same owner. I wasn't playing that day, but one day I hear ASCAP came in and asked them how long they had been doing music for? They sat at the bar and write down ever song the guy for that night was playing. At the end of the night, ASCAP folks figured the owed about 10 grand in back pay. That wasn't gonna happen, and the restaurant / bar stopped having music there altogether. The restaurant ended up settling up for penny's on the dollar with them. ASCAP fees are pretty cheap for restaurant and bar owns. The only thing cheaper is the owners them selves. I know two places in the area that you can only play originals, or stuff that the copy write has expired/ open domain. Both places are very busy. I have enough original material to go for a few hours. I believe stuff like this is now open domain and your free to play it anywhere without reserve. But double check. [video=youtube-Pistol PAckin' Mama deleted due to nudity... sorry boys!] Musical Works published with a valid Copyright Notice of 1922 or Earlier are in the public domain in the United States. so this is fine [video=youtube;cvlDNmv7-VQ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob Dey Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 A really nice restaurant venue that I started playing at at least 12 years ago has been battling with ASCAP for a few years now. They made a deal with ASCAP a couple of years ago where they would only have music 3 months out of the year and pay for that only. This means even the volume of TVs had to be turned all the way down - no piped in music of any kind for the other 9 months. This year is the first year that they stopped hiring entertainment. The owner of this establishment joined a coalition against BMI and ASCAP over their price increases and strong arm tactics. She also has good reason to believe the US government has sided with these organizations. She also believes this is legal extortion and the proceeds aren't being distributed to artists, publishing etc. This is kind of becoming a war on live music. Maybe this is why venues that depend on live music to bring in customers aren't paying musicians nearly as much as they used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 Capitalism at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted September 4, 2016 Author Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 If playing live is an important source of our income, then it seems to me we need to be well versed in exactly what the issues are in determining the costs to venues where we play. I've found some information on the ASCAP web site, including a form that venues have to fill out, but some things still aren't clear to me. The most important disconnect is that ASCAP assumes that venues are hosting bands that play music that is currently popular. They also assume that music is a significant enhancement to the venue's bottom line. ASCAP is being willfully ignorant if it can't tell which venues "sell" music and which ones consider it an optional enhancement. There's a small restaurant in the next town that has live jazz once a week . . . no other live music. I'd like to know the specifics of their ASCAP agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 I don't think it's unfair that the composers of the music you play get paid. But, as with many things, the system is skewed to give large rewards to the big rollers and nothing whatever to the little guys. That, of course, is because the system is *run* by the big rollers (and their publishers, lawyers and lobbyists). ASCAP was started by the big songwriters in New York and originally excluded anyone else. Now you can be included, but you won't actually gain anything from it. I write songs and some have been played on local radio, and I've played them at bars. They're registered with CAPAC, the Canadian ASCAP. So I should have received, at some point, at least 53¢ in royalties. But I have not. That's just not how it works, kids. Look up "Paint Roller" in Wikipedia. Worth getting bitter about? Life is short and, as they say, "After the game, the king and pawn go into the same box." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted September 4, 2016 Author Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 Am I correct in assuming that if you submit a setlist of your gig, the royalties will go to relevant songwriters? Given how most of us feel about current hits, why aren't we doing that? And I'd like to know if submitting set lists has some bearing on ASCAP fees to the venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Notes_Norton Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 I agree that songwriters deserve compensation from their creations. I agree that ASCAP doesn't know what you are playing and therefore the song writers that wrote the songs that I perform in an ASCAP licensed venue are probably not getting paid fairly. I play some never were top40 songs like Mose Allison's "Your Mind Is On Vacation" and he probably never gets a penny for that. So the system is definitely screwed up and in need of an overhaul. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to make it fair without the burden of someone recording the title of every song played by every group in every venue. Something that seems quite impractical and would cost more than it is worth. But while pondering the question, something else enters my mind. If a person buys the sheet music to a song, shouldn't that person be able to play that song wherever he/she wants? After all, royalties have been paid. And if not, what is the sense of buying the music if you can't play it anywhere? Just thinking out loud. Insights and incites by Notes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 Let's do an experiment. You submit a setlist to ASCAP and list a few of my songs on it. CAPAC is part of a network that ensures composers get money from foreign plays. So, if you do that a few times, I should get, at the least, an enquiry on what to do with the 3¢ (minus fees) that I have coming to me. What could go wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2016 I have no idea how to make it fair without the burden of someone recording the title of every song played by every groupWe used to have to do that when I worked in radio as a DJ...I know they still report ,but exactly what they do now I'm not sure [probably some digital transcript]. As to the sheet music approach, you have paid the copyright fee to have the music, and play it privately, like owning a CD or an MP3 does not confer the right to play it publicly. You can play it at home for family and friends but there is a gray area here because if you have a large party of, say 100 people, is that a public performance?...the law has held it could be...or maybe not...gotta love the law... but you can obtain a 'statutory' license from the LoC [sounds like statutory rape to me] for onetime only use...PER SONG or SOUND RECORDING... I did learn that the old 'dodge' some clubs used was to have a jukebox in the venue [for which a fee is paid to ASCAP/BMI/SESAC through the JukeBox License Office], which many thought 'covered' them for live performance...but it doesn't. Why those three can't come up with a 'Live Performance Office' to avoid the separate licensing issue for live work is beyond me. But it still won't fairly compensate songwriters for third party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members senorblues Posted September 4, 2016 Author Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 No offense, but there's no hope for the minor song writers. But what about the major dudes who don't happen to have a current hit? Stevie Wonder, Smokey Robinson, Gamble and Huff. Dare I say, Fagan/Becker. These guys are covered all the time. ASCAP suggests we submit lists, but surely there has to be some benefit to us for doing so. Is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators daddymack Posted September 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2016 As an original artist registered with a PRO, in order to get ANY money, you need to report your performance of your material through the ASCAP OnStage, BMI Live, or SESAC’s Live Performance Notification System. The PROs otherwise allocate funds based on the current record sales charts [for radio airplay] and current tour sales figures [for live performance royalties] although they deny it is really all that simple, so it is biased toward the hit makers and arena rock/large festival bands. The only other time you will get paid specifically is from the streaming services, and then... $.0000005 or some ridiculous number like that [so you need 2 million plays to make a buck]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pogo97 Posted September 4, 2016 Members Share Posted September 4, 2016 there's an app for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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