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Problem With Band Member Recording A Demo


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I recently just formed a new band. We play Outlaw/Texas Country, things like Waylon, Merle Haggard and even modern ones such as Whitey Morgan.

 

Anyway, we spent a couple of months rehearsing/practicing getting real tight. We got really tight and sound pretty good. After compiling a list of about 40-50 songs we decided to start gigging.

 

The problem with that is the fact that the area I live in is so saturated with musicians and bands that it is really difficult to get a decent gig if your band is not established or without a demo. Its been a long time since I wasn't in an established band so this was new to me. Every venue I asked about a gig mentioned a demo immediately. Eventually I suggested to the band that we record a demo.

 

Fortunately, or unfortunately (depends on how you look at it), I am a little more financially secure than everyone else in the band so I agreed to foot the bill for the demo. I know a guy that owns a studio and so I book us some time.

 

We decided to record 6 songs, several originals and several covers. Well we recorded the songs and although several of the members had never been in the studio, it didn't sound too bad for the short period of time we had to record them.

 

After we did the tracking, the owner of the studio stated he would mix and master them at a discount if I allowed him to do it when he was at the studio piddling around between other sessions. I stated that was fine.

 

After we did the tracking, immediately two of the members started bugging me about the demos. I advised them of the agreement I had and it maybe several weeks before they are ready.

 

This is where I get rubbed the wrong way. Our drummer has a degree in Sound Engineering (Music Industry Studies) from an accredited college. He has a decent setup with Pro Tools at his house, and he has mixed numerous projects before. After asking me several times when the demo would be ready, I suggested we just get the raw tracks and mix it ourselves. He responded with "are you gonna pay me". I really thought he was joking. About a week later He asked me when the demo would be ready, I again explained my deal with the studio and suggested if we wanted it sooner and a little more creative control why not mix and master it at his house. He said it again and I responded with "are you serious". He stated that I was paying the studio for a service and if I wanted him to do that service I would have to pay him as well.

 

We were setting up and there were people around so I didn't get into it any further, even though I wanted to. Coincidentally a few days later the demo was ready and I picked it up. The studio also, at my request, gave me the raw tracks we recorded. I wanted them to transfer into Logic Pro X just to practice mixing and mastering. When he found out that I had the raw tracks he asked for them several times. Each time I alluded to him that I wasn't giving them to him and he seem kind of putout by that.

 

Just out of curiosity, am I justified in being rubbed the wrong way for the way he acted about mixing and mastering the demo, and should I give him the tracks?

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Nope problems the way I see it, and here's some of my input and ideas.

 

It's just a s business, that's it. It just happens to be a music biz, and it always gets complicated, and emotionally complicated.

 

Like any investor, one would expect some kind of return on there initial investment. Say 10%.

 

So say you were the one that pump in the initial 1000 dollars for the band to record, you should eventually get that money back plus 10 %.

 

Any gigs you get can get paid out monthly or quarterly, or even once a year.

 

You need to set up some kind of Doing Business As account, where all money gets drawn form to pay bills and money gets added to when you play a gig and make a profit.

 

All legit business expenses can be written off on a schedule C tax filing, just keep all the receipts and keep track of stuff on a spread sheet.

You can quickly see if the band is making money or losing money monthly.

 

If someone gets a gig for the band , that person can get an extra 10%.. The band gets to play and all will make money.

 

 

Anything done at home, is stuff done at home and only saves the band money in the long run, and is not an expense that can be written off. If you need to rent out a van, or buy a new monitor for the band you do that out of the DBA check account.

 

 

So imo your buddy, no matter how many hit albums he has mixed before, gets nothing to mix this current band album, cause he's not a legitimate business tax write off. I look at it as you can pay the neighbors kid to cut your lawn, or you can hire a landscaping company. One you vcan write off as up keep for your property, the other you can't.

 

I'm no business genius, so others can add there 2 cents.

 

 

Good luck.

 

If buy chance someone leave the band, you can give them what money is owed to them, or buy them out, on that quarterly pay out. Never pay up on some friday night when ever one was drinking and someone just gets pissed off at another.

 

 

 

 

 

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Nope problems the way I see it, and here's some of my input and ideas.

 

It's just a s business, that's it. It just happens to be a music biz, and it always gets complicated, and emotionally complicated.

 

Like any investor, one would expect some kind of return on there initial investment. Say 10%.

 

So say you were the one that pump in the initial 1000 dollars for the band to record, you should eventually get that money back plus 10 %.

 

Any gigs you get can get paid out monthly or quarterly, or even once a year.

 

You need to set up some kind of Doing Business As account, where all money gets drawn form to pay bills and money gets added to when you play a gig and make a profit.

 

All legit business expenses can be written off on a schedule C tax filing, just keep all the receipts and keep track of stuff on a spread sheet.

You can quickly see if the band is making money or losing money monthly.

 

If someone gets a gig for the band , that person can get an extra 10%.. The band gets to play and all will make money.

 

 

Anything done at home, is stuff done at home and only saves the band money in the long run, and is not an expense that can be written off. If you need to rent out a van, or buy a new monitor for the band you do that out of the DBA check account.

 

 

So imo your buddy, no matter how many hit albums he has mixed before, gets nothing to mix this current band album, cause he's not a legitimate business tax write off. I look at it as you can pay the neighbors kid to cut your lawn, or you can hire a landscaping company. One you vcan write off as up keep for your property, the other you can't.

 

I'm no business genius, so others can add there 2 cents.

 

 

Good luck.

 

If buy chance someone leave the band, you can give them what money is owed to them, or buy them out, on that quarterly pay out. Never pay up on some friday night when ever one was drinking and someone just gets pissed off at another.

 

 

 

 

 

Pretty interesting take on things, and I like it.

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In your shoes, I think I'd just finish off the arrangement you made with the studio. You might have to wait a bit longer, but it's probably the best option. I'd be even more apt to go with that option if the relative skills of the studio's engineer and the drummer are similar; especially if the drummer wants to charge significantly more than the discounted rate you're getting at the studio.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay the drummer extra to mix it - not after you footed the bill to pay for it to begin with. Now, if you have a financial incentive / reward built into the deal / arrangement, then that's another matter. If you stand to profit off the recording more so than the rest of the band (which wouldn't be unreasonable, considering they didn't make the same financial investment), and if you think the drummer would be the best person to do the mix, then it is only fair to pay him / her for the work - or share the percentage / reward with them, since like you, they're making an investment in it beyond their basic contribution as a musician in the band.

 

A lot of this could probably have been avoided by having a band discussion about the demo, its purpose and acceptable uses, as well as ownership, costs and responsibilities, and then getting everyone to agree to everything (in writing) before proceeding with the project…:idea::)

 

Again, I think I'd just finish out with the studio, and then if the band / drummer later decide they want to do a remix, you can offer to license the masters to them… ;)

 

 

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In your shoes, I think I'd just finish off the arrangement you made with the studio. You might have to wait a bit longer, but it's probably the best option. I'd be even more apt to go with that option if the relative skills of the studio's engineer and the drummer are similar; especially if the drummer wants to charge significantly more than the discounted rate you're getting at the studio.

 

I certainly wouldn't pay the drummer extra to mix it - not after you footed the bill to pay for it to begin with. Now, if you have a financial incentive / reward built into the deal / arrangement, then that's another matter. If you stand to profit off the recording more so than the rest of the band (which wouldn't be unreasonable, considering they didn't make the same financial investment), and if you think the drummer would be the best person to do the mix, then it is only fair to pay him / her for the work - or share the percentage / reward with them, since like you, they're making an investment in it beyond their basic contribution as a musician in the band.

 

A lot of this could probably have been avoided by having a band discussion about the demo, its purpose and acceptable uses, as well as ownership, costs and responsibilities, and then getting everyone to agree to everything (in writing) before proceeding with the project…:idea::)

 

Again, I think I'd just finish out with the studio, and then if the band / drummer later decide they want to do a remix, you can offer to license the masters to them… ;)

 

 

I did stick with the studio engineer and they are finished.

 

 

Funny thing about it, he would not touch the tracks before they were finished without being paid. now that they are finished he wants the raw tracks? Why would he want the raw tracks? If he wanted the raw tracks, why didn't offer to mix and master them before I paid someone to do it. The only logical reason I could think of for him wanting them is some type of benefit for him separate from the band.

 

I'm an easy going guy. I probably would have given him the tracks to use outside of the band if he would have been willing to contribute up front or in whatever way he could have....ie mixing.

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I did stick with the studio engineer and they are finished.

 

 

Funny thing about it, he would not touch the tracks before they were finished without being paid. now that they are finished he wants the raw tracks? Why would he want the raw tracks?

 

Could be for a number of reasons… engineers are funny that way, and we like to keep copies of all of our work. We also tend to love to dissect the work of others, and that's even more interesting when it's something that either we played on, or features some famous artist or band that we really like.

 

If he wanted the raw tracks, why didn't offer to mix and master them before I paid someone to do it. The only logical reason I could think of for him wanting them is some type of benefit for him separate from the band.

 

He could just want a copy for his own archives, or maybe he wants to experiment with doing a remix… or maybe he wants a copy of the masters so he has them if the band ever breaks up and / or so he can use them later. Hard to say…

 

I'm an easy going guy. I probably would have given him the tracks to use outside of the band if he would have been willing to contribute up front or in whatever way he could have....ie mixing.

 

Well, if you paid for them, they're yours. You might have "issues" if you try to use them for a commercial purpose beyond the intended demo use, (you'd need to have contracts with the band for their appearances, as well as needing mechanical licenses for all the original and non-original material), but if you paid for the masters, there's no law or rule that I know of that says you have to share them / give copies to the other band members.

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Could be for a number of reasons… engineers are funny that way, and we like to keep copies of all of our work. We also tend to love to dissect the work of others, and that's even more interesting when it's something that either we played on, or features some famous artist or band that we really like.

 

 

 

He could just want a copy for his own archives, or maybe he wants to experiment with doing a remix… or maybe he wants a copy of the masters so he has them if the band ever breaks up and / or so he can use them later. Hard to say…

 

 

 

Well, if you paid for them, they're yours. You might have "issues" if you try to use them for a commercial purpose beyond the intended demo use, (you'd need to have contracts with the band for their appearances, as well as needing mechanical licenses for all the original and non-original material), but if you paid for the masters, there's no law or rule that I know of that says you have to share them / give copies to the other band members.

 

Thanks, as always I appreciate the input.

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Bands run as a democracy rarely succeed. You can have symbiotic relationships but there's usually one member who drives the band. It may be the one whose musically advanced or the guy who gets the gigs rolling in. Back when I first played in bands it was usually the guy who owned the PA or had the rehearsal space that called the shots.

 

Band members can have working relationships with others who also have specialties. I had one band where one member who had a day job as a graphic artist who provided our banners, flyers and CD artwork. We paid him for the cost or getting the work done only. He profited when the rest of us did when we got jobs. I'd handled the Electronics/Technical aspects and recording end. I had the PA, Rehearsal space and scheduled rehearsals, Gigs and drive most of the music we played, mainly because of my experience level and musical knowledge finding material suitable for all the players.

 

We had another member who was a sales person in their day job and had the knack of getting gigs. I was thankful for this because most of my extra curricular activity with the band consumed most of my free time.

 

The problem we did have was with the bass player. He didn't have any other skills beyond being able to play. He only showed up for gigs and took his money and left. We tried to get him to pitch in with the rest of us getting the band off the ground, but he felt like hired help and his participation didn't extend beyond his playing. When it came time to play out he was the type to pack his own gear and leave the rest of the band to pack everything else.

 

In essence he was a self centered ass who only cared about himself and what he could get out of the and, not what he could put into it to make the band even better. He was a good player but we eventually dumped him for someone slightly less talented but was motivated. (Kind of what the Beatles did hiring Ringo) He was willing to share the hard work and not just mooch off the hard work of others. It didn't matter if this guy had extra skills he could add, but pitching in to help others he made their jobs easier and he actually developed some of those skills.

 

If you're going to run a business and invest, Create books for the bands profit and losses. Small startup businesses can write off losses on tax returns if you know what you're doing. Later others wont begrudge you compensation when the band does turn a profit. You must do that up front however. You have to show the others they have a way of paying off your charity if you're going to go that way. They have to know that's what they signed up for before you invest. No one likes to have favors held over their heads with no way of paying back the favor. That's a sleazy way dominating others and in the end it "always" fails. You need to rectify the situation and turn that generosity into something positive or suffer the consequences.

 

If you're the one who runs the band, hires and fires the members and gets most of the gigs I can see where the drummer may want to hire out his services to the boss of the band. You seem to have taken on the role as boss by paying for the demo. He fails to see the big picture however. He doesn't see the scarifies you've made by working another job to get that money. He may even feel obligated to paying his share of what you invested. He may feel you're buying out the business and seizing control.

 

His attitude of, Pay me and I'll work for you seems to suggest he is taking the wrong attitude.

 

Band leaders rarely get fully compensated for what they put into a band and expecting thanks isn't going to get you where you need to go. You may in fact come across many who are offended by your positive attitude in pushing things ahead.

 

I do however encourage you to recruit whatever additional skills the players may have. If you don't you are missing out on building the loyalty needed to have the band survive the times ahead.

 

If this was an actually album where a profit was expected from its sale, I'd agree with the others who posted. This is a matter of advertisement however and its up to all members to sell the band. Yes you put money into it and you have ownership, but because you took a leading role and set an example of selflessness, you are missing out on a great opportunities if you don't use that momentum properly.

 

Running a band isn't just about getting paid at the end of the night. A person needs to feel they have a vested interest in making the business a success. That requires the leader to share power, not just pay people.

 

You have many prima donna's in show business who have no clue how to run a business. Its much more difficult to build a business that will survive then many think. You often have to do things that are counterintuitive to your own self interest. Its easy to wind up despising a band leader who thinks he can buy loyalty.

 

If your goal is to develop a working band, people have to kick in with more then just their musical notes. All that other stuff doesn't get done on its own. It may be a long time before the band can actually hire roadies to tote gear around. Until then everyone has to do double duty if they expect to be successful.

 

Problem here is setting those expectations from the start. The day you first play together, find out what peoples day jobs and specialties are. Figure out a way to utilize those skills and give those members a purpose that goes beyond just being a musician.

 

You'll find real life and real jobs do require all of these things. Yes you may be hired for a specific job but a wiser employer will judge your other potentials and tap into those skills as well. If you allow those additional skills to be used then you may deserve a raise for the additional revenue those skills bring in. You may also take a slightly lower pay and maintain a secure position so the competition can't steal your job.

 

As the boss you can teach by setting and example, but you may not connect with others when you do so. You have to teach them how your example is expected to be followed by others. You'll also have to become a politician dealing with everyone's gripes, a motivator to get the best from others, and be the guy who looks ahead and sees the positive when all everyone is seeing is negative.

 

In essence you become the father who guides, protects and brings home the bacon. If you aren't up to that role, and no one else is the ship has no rudder and will simply drift into dangerous waters.

 

The attitude of your drummer seems to suggest he's a member who is lacking purpose beyond his playing. You paid for the demo instead of having everyone share in the cost, so whats you're real goal by doing that? A larger share of the Glory? Of are you a bigger man who knows how to motivate others with your example? Work is money. Cash is only a substitute for that work.

 

Giving that drummer a purpose beyond the performing is essential. You're missing a great opportunity here that wont come again. You can get a much bigger bang for your buck if you know how. If the guy expected to be paid, he obviously isn't looking at things from the proper perspective. He figures you bought the band and he's jerking your chain because he feels left out. l

 

You have to be the one who pulls him aside and draw him into the larger picture.

 

I suggest you find the one demo song that doesn't sound so hot. Tell him you're not sure that studio did the best job. Tell him there's no money in it besides the band having a better chance at scoring better gigs. Let him know you're hoping to earn back what you've invested and challenge him to do the same.

 

Give him one song to mix not all 6. When he thinks its done have the rest of the band evaluate it.

 

Its probably not going to matter in the end when it comes to getting jobs, but lets say it does motivate this drummer to go out and push the CD to get a few more gigs. Is this demo so important or is getting jobs?

 

You're giving the thing away to prospective employers anyway aren't you? Are they more deserving then your own band members?

 

So say the guy can't mix at all, what do you really loose and what do you gain. If you freeze the guy out he'll never forget that and his resentment will continue to haunt you all the time you're working with the guy. He may not show it openly but he'll be the first one with his boot on your neck when you stumble instead of being the first guy to help you up with a helping hand.

 

If you give him a shot he'll praise you for the opportunity to make the band better and will be a loyal member of the band with a vested interest in its success.

 

Have the band evaluate his efforts. If its good he gets a pat on the back and is told to go out and get gigs with it. If he gets jobs, you get paid back. End of story. If it stinks, well, don't be too tough on him for his failure. Channel his positive effort back into something else that turns a profit.

 

As of now no ones getting paid so he shouldn't expect to be paid for his efforts. Make him realize you're gambling on him bringing in a return on your investment. "Challenge him to do the same" and if he accepts welcome the efforts.

 

This way you are giving that person a positive role in making the band a success. When you freeze him out you make him a vengeful bystander with no positive way to influence the bands momentum.

 

People need to be challenged, then complemented on their progress. Its just as important for them as actually being paid to work. You have to look at the bigger picture here. When your vision is too small and too selfish and you get into arguing about stupid stuff like a demo you're doomed. Put people to work doing everything they do best (or at least think they can) to keep the positive energy working. You must also recognize when the effort is misguided and help guide it where it can do the most good.

 

You simply have to step back and look at what you're doing and decide what really matters here. He'll always know you were the one who funded the demo in the end. You'll be respected for that. The question is do you want to be respected for that effort or do you want despised for not letting others share in the opportunity for making the and successful.

 

Just my two cents that comes from a lifetime playing in bands.

Edited by WRGKMC
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...

 

He was a good player but we eventually dumped him for someone slightly less talented but was motivated. (Kind of what the Beatles did hiring Ringo)

...

 

I take it you don't think of Ringo as a very good drummer in the same way that I do.

 

I've played with a few top notch drummers over the years and I know what that feels like. It was the same thing with The Beatles when they got Ringo in the band. It's no coincidence that the second half of The Beatles twelve years as a band was phenomenally successful - 'though we started out quite poor, we got Ritchie on a tour.'

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Bands run as a democracy rarely succeed. You can have symbiotic relationships but there's usually one member who drives the band. It may be the one whose musically advanced or the guy who gets the gigs rolling in. Back when I first played in bands it was usually the guy who owned the PA or had the rehearsal space that called the shots.

 

Band members can have working relationships with others who also have specialties. I had one band where one member who had a day job as a graphic artist who provided our banners, flyers and CD artwork. We paid him for the cost or getting the work done only. He profited when the rest of us did when we got jobs. I'd handled the Electronics/Technical aspects and recording end. I had the PA, Rehearsal space and scheduled rehearsals, Gigs and drive most of the music we played, mainly because of my experience level and musical knowledge finding material suitable for all the players.

 

We had another member who was a sales person in their day job and had the knack of getting gigs. I was thankful for this because most of my extra curricular activity with the band consumed most of my free time.

 

The problem we did have was with the bass player. He didn't have any other skills beyond being able to play. He only showed up for gigs and took his money and left. We tried to get him to pitch in with the rest of us getting the band off the ground, but he felt like hired help and his participation didn't extend beyond his playing. When it came time to play out he was the type to pack his own gear and leave the rest of the band to pack everything else.

 

In essence he was a self centered ass who only cared about himself and what he could get out of the and, not what he could put into it to make the band even better. He was a good player but we eventually dumped him for someone slightly less talented but was motivated. (Kind of what the Beatles did hiring Ringo) He was willing to share the hard work and not just mooch off the hard work of others. It didn't matter if this guy had extra skills he could add, but pitching in to help others he made their jobs easier and he actually developed some of those skills.

 

If you're going to run a business and invest, Create books for the bands profit and losses. Small startup businesses can write off losses on tax returns if you know what you're doing. Later others wont begrudge you compensation when the band does turn a profit. You must do that up front however. You have to show the others they have a way of paying off your charity if you're going to go that way. They have to know that's what they signed up for before you invest. No one likes to have favors held over their heads with no way of paying back the favor. That's a sleazy way dominating others and in the end it "always" fails. You need to rectify the situation and turn that generosity into something positive or suffer the consequences.

 

If you're the one who runs the band, hires and fires the members and gets most of the gigs I can see where the drummer may want to hire out his services to the boss of the band. You seem to have taken on the role as boss by paying for the demo. He fails to see the big picture however. He doesn't see the scarifies you've made by working another job to get that money. He may even feel obligated to paying his share of what you invested. He may feel you're buying out the business and seizing control.

 

His attitude of, Pay me and I'll work for you seems to suggest he is taking the wrong attitude.

 

Band leaders rarely get fully compensated for what they put into a band and expecting thanks isn't going to get you where you need to go. You may in fact come across many who are offended by your positive attitude in pushing things ahead.

 

I do however encourage you to recruit whatever additional skills the players may have. If you don't you are missing out on building the loyalty needed to have the band survive the times ahead.

 

If this was an actually album where a profit was expected from its sale, I'd agree with the others who posted. This is a matter of advertisement however and its up to all members to sell the band. Yes you put money into it and you have ownership, but because you took a leading role and set an example of selflessness, you are missing out on a great opportunities if you don't use that momentum properly.

 

Running a band isn't just about getting paid at the end of the night. A person needs to feel they have a vested interest in making the business a success. That requires the leader to share power, not just pay people.

 

You have many prima donna's in show business who have no clue how to run a business. Its much more difficult to build a business that will survive then many think. You often have to do things that are counterintuitive to your own self interest. Its easy to wind up despising a band leader who thinks he can buy loyalty.

 

If your goal is to develop a working band, people have to kick in with more then just their musical notes. All that other stuff doesn't get done on its own. It may be a long time before the band can actually hire roadies to tote gear around. Until then everyone has to do double duty if they expect to be successful.

 

Problem here is setting those expectations from the start. The day you first play together, find out what peoples day jobs and specialties are. Figure out a way to utilize those skills and give those members a purpose that goes beyond just being a musician.

 

You'll find real life and real jobs do require all of these things. Yes you may be hired for a specific job but a wiser employer will judge your other potentials and tap into those skills as well. If you allow those additional skills to be used then you may deserve a raise for the additional revenue those skills bring in. You may also take a slightly lower pay and maintain a secure position so the competition can't steal your job.

 

As the boss you can teach by setting and example, but you may not connect with others when you do so. You have to teach them how your example is expected to be followed by others. You'll also have to become a politician dealing with everyone's gripes, a motivator to get the best from others, and be the guy who looks ahead and sees the positive when all everyone is seeing is negative.

 

In essence you become the father who guides, protects and brings home the bacon. If you aren't up to that role, and no one else is the ship has no rudder and will simply drift into dangerous waters.

 

The attitude of your drummer seems to suggest he's a member who is lacking purpose beyond his playing. You paid for the demo instead of having everyone share in the cost, so whats you're real goal by doing that? A larger share of the Glory? Of are you a bigger man who knows how to motivate others with your example? Work is money. Cash is only a substitute for that work.

 

Giving that drummer a purpose beyond the performing is essential. You're missing a great opportunity here that wont come again. You can get a much bigger bang for your buck if you know how. If the guy expected to be paid, he obviously isn't looking at things from the proper perspective. He figures you bought the band and he's jerking your chain because he feels left out. l

 

You have to be the one who pulls him aside and draw him into the larger picture.

 

I suggest you find the one demo song that doesn't sound so hot. Tell him you're not sure that studio did the best job. Tell him there's no money in it besides the band having a better chance at scoring better gigs. Let him know you're hoping to earn back what you've invested and challenge him to do the same.

 

Give him one song to mix not all 6. When he thinks its done have the rest of the band evaluate it.

 

Its probably not going to matter in the end when it comes to getting jobs, but lets say it does motivate this drummer to go out and push the CD to get a few more gigs. Is this demo so important or is getting jobs?

 

You're giving the thing away to prospective employers anyway aren't you? Are they more deserving then your own band members?

 

So say the guy can't mix at all, what do you really loose and what do you gain. If you freeze the guy out he'll never forget that and his resentment will continue to haunt you all the time you're working with the guy. He may not show it openly but he'll be the first one with his boot on your neck when you stumble instead of being the first guy to help you up with a helping hand.

 

If you give him a shot he'll praise you for the opportunity to make the band better and will be a loyal member of the band with a vested interest in its success.

 

Have the band evaluate his efforts. If its good he gets a pat on the back and is told to go out and get gigs with it. If he gets jobs, you get paid back. End of story. If it stinks, well, don't be too tough on him for his failure. Channel his positive effort back into something else that turns a profit.

 

As of now no ones getting paid so he shouldn't expect to be paid for his efforts. Make him realize you're gambling on him bringing in a return on your investment. "Challenge him to do the same" and if he accepts welcome the efforts.

 

This way you are giving that person a positive role in making the band a success. When you freeze him out you make him a vengeful bystander with no positive way to influence the bands momentum.

 

People need to be challenged, then complemented on their progress. Its just as important for them as actually being paid to work. You have to look at the bigger picture here. When your vision is too small and too selfish and you get into arguing about stupid stuff like a demo you're doomed. Put people to work doing everything they do best (or at least think they can) to keep the positive energy working. You must also recognize when the effort is misguided and help guide it where it can do the most good.

 

You simply have to step back and look at what you're doing and decide what really matters here. He'll always know you were the one who funded the demo in the end. You'll be respected for that. The question is do you want to be respected for that effort or do you want despised for not letting others share in the opportunity for making the and successful.

 

Just my two cents that comes from a lifetime playing in bands.

 

He has never touch a piece of equipment that wasn't his drums. We've played 3 gigs and he has never connected a cable, lifted a speaker, or anything else. On top of that he expects to be able to make every call and have everything his way.

 

Its not just the point about the paying for the demo, he is the worst band member I have ever dealt with.

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There's some good info from the others here, but my .02 is:

 

* The drummer puts himself before the band at all times. This is not appropriate behavior, and I'd get rid of him. Sorry - but by your own info it's not as if taking the time to find someone else is going to cost you gigs (that you're currently not getting). But it WILL get rid of an irritating character.

 

* MikeO is dead correct that you need a ledger and to keep track of things. This is entirely dependent on how much we're talking about. Also, that starts after the 'rules' are established. Basically, I'd simply not enter that original demo into the ledger, and I'd continue to hang on to the materials. But don't start the ledger until it's more than beer money.

 

* I'm not entirely sure why you didn't do the demo yourself?

 

If gigs are as competitive as your original post states, then it follows that there are other drummers out there - ones who don't try your patience, attempt to make money off of generous bandmates, and etc. etc. etc. Guy's an annoyance -- and do you really think that's going to improve over time?

 

I'm afraid I didn't want to read the lengthy post WRK added, but I did see his prescient and well targeted opener about how bands are not democracies. I think they can be, but bands need to establish who has say over what, and the earlier the better. If you don't do it explicitly, people will do it implicitly which leads to bad behavior.

 

Edited by Danhedonia
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My drummer .02 (much higher value than those other .02s (:{

Drummers are attention hogs; hence drums. If they mature into good musicians, there's still that exhibitionist nature; now unrequited. If the guy bothered with college and specifically with sound engineering he may be on passion. Business smarts aside, the tracks may now present a strong creative/competitive challenge. (?)

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He has never touch a piece of equipment that wasn't his drums. We've played 3 gigs and he has never connected a cable, lifted a speaker, or anything else. On top of that he expects to be able to make every call and have everything his way.

 

Its not just the point about the paying for the demo, he is the worst band member I have ever dealt with.

 

As the very wise Dan Savage would say: DTMFA.

 

Either that, or pay him by the hour for the work he does do with no promise of future loyalty. In other words treat like him a temp worker, if that is how he behaves.

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