Members Bobby1Note Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm looking for a tool to help me test some speakers, and to aid in my live-sound set-ups. It's more a matter of curiosity, since I get by fine using my ears. I'm particularly interested in testing my NX55p's, since I can't seem to find a frequency spectrum analysis for this speaker, and I've tried every search-mode imaginable, including contacting Yorkville. I've considered the Phonic PAA3, but haven't seen it in the flesh. I'm a little concerned about the smallish display. Is there something else I should be looking at? A tablet perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 SMAART Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Redbassman86 Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 ^ +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 2, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 SMAART Coaster, What exactly would I need? I'm not familiar with SMAART, although I have seen it mentioned from time to time. I assume this is a software app, so I'd need a laptop or tablet, and a measurement mic. Any recomendations on that front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 RTA mic, stand, location you can work in/at (not your 1 car unfinished garage), decent (not fabulous) interface, misc cables, some type of computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Smaart is great and there is a free demo you can run for 30 days to check it out. Smaart does what are called "transfer function" measurements. It looks at the output from your mixer and compares that signal to the signal it measures in the air from your speaker. RTAs just measure in the air so yo never have an accurate baseline to measure against. Also RTA's can't tell the difference between the sound coming out of the speaker and the sound after it has bounced around the room for a while. That said ... there are free smart phone apps that do RTA. Compromised for sure, but it's better than nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Here's a Smarrt like Freebie software http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Another freebie here http://www.holmacoustics.com/holmimpulse.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members dboomer Posted December 2, 2011 Members Share Posted December 2, 2011 Here's a Smarrt like Freebie software http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ This is kinda cool at first look. It does not do transfer function measurements but instead uses a swept wave as the source (in the style of TEF). I'll have some fun playing with it. What this means is that this system essentially plays a tone through your system and compares what it measures to the tone it knows that it is sending. That's fine, even better in some ways ... but with Smaart you can actually use your mix as the signal and make measurements during your show with no one in the audience ever hearing a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 You guys are terrific. I REALLY appreciate the help. As for the hardware, what would you recommend. (assuming I buy SMAART). Can I run this program on a tablet? I just saw one at Costco, for $199. Would something like that have enough processing power? As for an interface, I have one (Apogee Duet), but it's FireWire. I'd probably need a decent USB 2.0 unit with an XLR input. Now, how about the RTA mic? Any recommendations in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 You guys are terrific. I REALLY appreciate the help. As for the hardware, what would you recommend. (assuming I buy SMAART). Can I run this program on a tablet? I just saw one at Costco, for $199. Would something like that have enough processing power? As for an interface, I have one (Apogee Duet), but it's FireWire. I'd probably need a decent USB 2.0 unit with an XLR input. Now, how about the RTA mic? Any recommendations in particular? Smaart needs a stereo input/output sound card so yes a stereo usb is needed for most new laptops. I had good luck with a IBM T20 laptop when I started out with smaart as it has a stereo sound card built in. The IBM T20-T60 lines all had the stereo sound cards. If your just starting out with smaart maybe look for a old IBM and use it as a single use device. Smaart is a processor hog but again just to get you going it may be a good route to go with an ibm t line. For my bar band gigs I have smaart on a coby nbpc1023xpblu tablet and it works fine. Of course I have a stereo usb in/out. Walmart sells the same basic design under a different name for around $189 once and awhile. DBX sells a basic rta microphone. I don't have it with me right now but I think its called an rta-m. Priced around $100. Don't put it in extreme hot or cold. A good entry level work horse microphone. Even Behringer has one out. Maybe $69 or so. Get ready for a learning curve. Search here and google and measure a lot. Dookietwo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Thanks Dookietwo, What interface are you using between the measurement mic and the tablet or PC? When you say "stereo" i/o, does this mean you are using two mics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 i have the RTA-M. its a good'un. i use a firewire motu interface, but you can use a crappy MOBO i/o if its full duplex - craig had issues with that. really the quality of the i/o isnt a high priority. thats why i said DECENT, it just has to be DECENT. smaart is comparative so the i/o quality isnt so mandatory like recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Coaster Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 stereo because it needs two ins; one from itself and one from the RTA-M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have some new DBX RTA mics looking for a new home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have some new DBX RTA mics looking for a new home. Ohhhhhh????? How much are you asking Andy? Up here, at Long & McQuade, they're asking $92.50 for the RTA-M. http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/5560/Pro_Audio_Recording/Microphones/DBX/RTA-M_-_Microphone_for_DriveRack.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members agedhorse Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Ohhhhhh????? How much are you asking Andy? Up here, at Long & McQuade, they're asking $92.50 for the RTA-M. http://www.long-mcquade.com/products/5560/Pro_Audio_Recording/Microphones/DBX/RTA-M_-_Microphone_for_DriveRack.htm PM me. It's certainly significantly less than that in USD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Thanks Dookietwo,What interface are you using between the measurement mic and the tablet or PC?When you say "stereo" i/o, does this mean you are using two mics? Smaart needs 2 or stereo inputs because it comparse 2 signals of the same source. Think of a stereo output with pink noise or music coming out. Take just the Right channel out and put a Y cord on it.1 side of the Y goes on to your device to measure Speaker/eq/ etc. The other side of the Y goes back into the sound cards Right input for smaart to use as a reference. Now with a microphone in front of your speaker playing the Right channels information put the mics signal into the Left input of the sound card. Now Smaart has 2 inputs of the same signal.1 or Right in is the reference.2 or Left in is the speakers response. (or eq etc ) It compares the 2 and shows you the difference between them in Time, Phase, and freq response. As an example with a DSP or digital crossover in between the Right ouput going on to the speaker you would eq so the speakers output is as close as you can get it to the reference signal going out. Within the design limits of your speaker system, Again there is a learning curve involved. Knowing how to use the information given. There is no easy answer at first.When you get a handle on it its quite a good tool to use. Dookietwo In this thread I was comparing and getting 2 different sub types to work together. This is a basic example of what you can do. http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/42761/0/0/51/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Doug, That was EXTREMELY helpful, and I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it. I admit that I had to re-read it a few times to get a handle on it this morning, but it all makes sense now. (My 1st morning coffee is kicking in ) I was a little confused at first, because I was thinking about the "sound-source" as being a mixer,,, but of course, the "sound source" is the sound (signal) that SMAART is sending to the speaker. (or whatever component(s) is/are being tested). If I have this right, I need a computer with stereo outs, and stereo "ins". Since most computers have mini-jacks, and I need XLR cables to go to the speaker, I'll need an interface with XLR outputs and inputs. (I have an Apogee Duet). I'll need a "Y" adapter or Y cable, and the measurement mic, and that's it. I don't own a portable computer,, but it's about time I got out of the dark ages. Now, as far as an "interface" is concerned,, we're not necessarily talking about a "digital interface" I presume. If I've got this right, all I need is an adapter for the computer, that converts "mini-jack out" to L&R out (XLR),,,, then one more input-adapter to convert XLR in (from test mic, and the looped computer-out cable), to mini-jack in. (Maybe I need that second mug of coffee now ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here's another thought. Does the PreSonus StudioLive do RTA? Hmmm. I bought a 24 ch SL a while back, and it's packed away for a future project. I'll take a peek at the manual, to see if this is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Here's another thought. Does the PreSonus StudioLive do RTA? Hmmm. I bought a 24 ch SL a while back, and it's packed away for a future project. I'll take a peek at the manual, to see if this is possible. No the SL doesn't have any RTA on it. It's been requested in the Presonus forum maybe to add some user friendly room analyzing app for the VSL along with plugins. Since VSL is similar to the SAC mixer but a whole lot more user friendly then the SAC mixer. If you own a iphone, ipad, ipod they have a SMARRT app for it but the built in mic on the igear wouldn't be a good mic to be working with and heard the Behringer test mic does a good job but that just hear say on the Behringer test mic. Here's the app http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/audiotools/id325307477?mt=8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bobby1Note Posted December 3, 2011 Author Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 OK, thanks Tommy, I think I need/want a portable solution anyway. With a notebook or laptop computer (or tablet), I'd probably find plenty of other uses for it too (backing tracks, break-music, etc. I'd kill to get a MacBook Pro, so I could use the FW connection of my Apogee Duet. The iPhone/app sounds like a handy thing to have, but I don't own a cell-phone (never have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members twostone Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 OK, thanks Tommy, I think I need/want a portable solution anyway. With a notebook or laptop computer (or tablet), I'd probably find plenty of other uses for it too (backing tracks, break-music, etc. I'd kill to get a MacBook Pro, so I could use the FW connection of my Apogee Duet.The iPhone/app sounds like a handy thing to have, but I don't own a cell-phone (never have). This might interest you to if you wanna remote mix http://www.splashtop.com/remote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Dookietwo Posted December 3, 2011 Members Share Posted December 3, 2011 Doug, If I have this right, I need a computer with stereo outs, and stereo "ins". Since most computers have mini-jacks, and I need XLR cables to go to the speaker, I'll need an interface with XLR outputs and inputs. (I have an Apogee Duet). I'll need a "Y" adapter or Y cable, and the measurement mic, and that's it. I don't own a portable computer,, but it's about time I got out of the dark ages. QUOTE] To look at it another way. You have a laptop with stereo sound card out. It has an 1/8 inch mini jack out. You get a cord that has mini 1/8 stereo to L/R rca plugs like this. Pick up 2 of them. 1 for out. 1 for in. http://www.amazon.com/Hosa-CMR206-Stereo-Inch-Dual/dp/B000068O33 Put a Y adaptor on the rca end of the right channel. http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Dynex&%23153%3B+-+RCA+Y-Adapter/9390633.p?id=1218097973202&skuId=9390633&cmp=RMX&ref=06&loc=01&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=9390633&extensionType=pla:g&gclid=CKG1p5nc5qwCFcfd4Aodwjo0Ng You would use ONLY the right side. 1 side of the Y goes into your Board. Channel eq set to flat. House eq set to flat at first, then the signal will go on to your speakers. Now plug the other 1/8th to rca cable into the stereo line in on your laptop or usb adaptor . Use the other side of the Y to return to the right in on your laptop/usb using one of these to connect the Y to the INPUT Right of you 1/8 to rca cable using one of the below. http://www.target.com/p/GE-RCA-Extension-Adapter-2-Pack-Black-72630/-/A-10690868#?ref=tgt_adv_XSG10001&AFID=Google_PLA_df&LNM=%7C10690868&CPNG=electronics&ci_sku=10690868&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw= Now the fun part. All you need now is a way to make the microphones signal the is hearing the speaker to go back into the LEFT IN on your laptop. If you have a mixer with 1/4 inch outs or has Direct out on each channel then get one of these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-3mm-6-3-mm-1-4-inch-1-4-Mono-Male-RCA-Female-Plug-Jack-Adapter-Converter-/150685215613?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item231589eb7d Have your microphone plugged into you mixer phantom power turned on. Take your channels Direct out or your mixers mains out if it has 1/4 outs as well and feed the signal to the laptop with that. Again remember to have all your eq's set flat or bypassed. If your using the direct out on a channel be sure to NOT have it assigned to the mains. If your taking it out of the mains PAN the channel full LEFT. What I did was setup my old IBM T20 laptop and a mixer to show you better. Right click and open in new tab. [ATTACH=CONFIG]340588[/ATTACH] If you look at the photo you will see "2" 1/8 inch mini jacks plugged into the laptop. The one with a RIGHT ANGLE on it is Stereo out. The one below it is stereo line in. ( This could be an 1/8 inch usb to laptop converter as well ) If you follow the right angle 1/8 out you will see there is a Y cable on the right out in red. One side of this Y goes on to my mixer - eq - power amp-speaker. This is the cable not plugged into anything now at the 12 o'clock spot. The other side of the Y goes into the Right 1/8 inch mini stereo input. The left out is not plugged into anything. The left channel 1/8 inch is being fed by a small mixer with phantom power with the dbx rta microphone in it. This is a basic RTA system. I used this for a long time with great results. Any usb to stereo 1/8th in/out could be used so long as its of reasonable quality for basic measurements. Hope this helps you out. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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